Question on builders oil specs approvals

[mbacfp]

When an oil gets certain builder approvals...is it both qualitative (VOAS) or mainly quantitative (engine testing in real world)...or is it pay to play? For example, Mobil delvac 5w40 doesn't carry Ford approval...so Mobil figures it has all the big names thus spending money to get Ford's approval isn't a necessity?

 

[BobFout]

It's all three.

I didn't know Ford had an HDEO spec. I don't see it listed on Motorcraft 15w40 or 10w30. As far as I can tell, they go by API spec.

 

[mbacfp]

Thanks Bob. I may not understand...I think it is Ford WSS-M2C917-A. Perhaps that is not a builder approval spec. Appreciate the info.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: mbacfp
Thanks Bob. I may not understand...I think it is Ford WSS-M2C917-A. Perhaps that is not a builder approval spec. Appreciate the info.


That is a Ford engine spec, but from what I can tell, it's for light-duty diesel engines not found here, not an HDEO spec. Your F-550 would not spec this.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: mbacfp
Thanks Bob. I may not understand...I think it is Ford WSS-M2C917-A. Perhaps that is not a builder approval spec. Appreciate the info.
That is a Ford engine spec, but from what I can tell, it's for light-duty diesel engines not found here, not an HDEO spec. Your F-550 would not spec this.
I think it would if it is a 6.7L Powerstroke diesel and I believe that is what the OP has.

 

[mbacfp]

Thanks guys. Just curious how that works. For example, Amsoil 5w40 diesel motor oil says it meets or exceeds Ford spec...but how does Amsoil know if not been tested by ford? Are those reliable things or who is willing to pay to be approved? Have a great night.

 

[TiredTrucker]

My guess is, since they are in the oil industry, they have access to all the data on what the detailed specifications are and have access to data on what to blend to make it meet specific specs. Might be as simple as calling their additive suppliers and asking. Not like all these specs are trade secrets and only the OEM has access to the specifications. The OEM's just set minimal standards and the oils folks blend up to meet those standards.

 

[BrocLuno]

If it's an actual "meets CAT xyz ..." listed on the container, it's usually "Pay to Play" like Dexos2, and it's been tested

If it's language like "meet or exceeds" blah, blah - then it's the refiner/blender who thinks they got it right ...

 

[4WD]

To see some serious play to pay - surf around mobilindustrial.com

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: mbacfp
Thanks Bob. I may not understand...I think it is Ford WSS-M2C917-A. Perhaps that is not a builder approval spec. Appreciate the info.
That is a Ford engine spec, but from what I can tell, it's for light-duty diesel engines not found here, not an HDEO spec. Your F-550 would not spec this.
I think it would if it is a 6.7L Powerstroke diesel and I believe that is what the OP has.


The oils I found that meet WSS-M2C917-A are European light-duty gas/diesel oils. Not suitable for use in medium-duty diesels that would use API HDEOs.

Just one example: http://pds.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Super_3000_XE_5W-30.aspx

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: mbacfp
Thanks Bob. I may not understand...I think it is Ford WSS-M2C917-A. Perhaps that is not a builder approval spec. Appreciate the info.
That is a Ford engine spec, but from what I can tell, it's for light-duty diesel engines not found here, not an HDEO spec. Your F-550 would not spec this.
I think it would if it is a 6.7L Powerstroke diesel and I believe that is what the OP has.
The oils I found that meet WSS-M2C917-A are European light-duty gas/diesel oils. Not suitable for use in medium-duty diesels that would use API HDEOs. Just one example: http://pds.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Super_3000_XE_5W-30.aspx
What does the OP's owner's manual state? I should have confirmed the specification before replying initially--it looked close, so I assumed it was the correct Ford specification. However, it should be WSS-M2C171-E not WSS-M2C917-A.

OP - can you confirm?

 

[mbacfp]

Says any API CJ-4 oil...but was curious as to which oil carry builders specs? For example, Kendall 15w-40 carries some Ford spec while Mobil Delvac 5w40 doesn't. Was curious what all that really means or if it really doesn't? Thanks and sorry for any confusion. Best.

 

[mbacfp]

My mistake...should be Ford WSS-M2C171-E. Was just curious if that spec was a big thing to look for in a CJ-4 oil? Been happy with Valvoline Extreme Blue 5w-40 and Mobil Delvac 5w-40 (which don't carry that approval)...Motorcraft 5w-40 is too darn expensive for me (which I believe carries that spec). Sorry for the confusion...cut and pasted the wrong spec type...take care.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: mbacfp
My mistake...should be Ford WSS-M2C171-E. Was just curious if that spec was a big thing to look for in a CJ-4 oil? Been happy with Valvoline Extreme Blue 5w-40 and Mobil Delvac 5w-40 (which don't carry that approval)...Motorcraft 5w-40 is too darn expensive for me (which I believe carries that spec). Sorry for the confusion...cut and pasted the wrong spec type...take care.
I doubt it. The only mainstream oils that I have seen which carry the Ford specification are Shell Rotella T6 (5W-40) and Kendall Super-Dxa (15W-40) as we discussed below. I would find it incredulous if Mobil Delvac (any flavor), Chevron Delo (any flavor), or Shell Rotella (T3 or T5) would be a problem in a PSD that specifies the Ford specification and API CJ-4.

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: mbacfp
Interesting you feel the Kendall 15w-40 was the smoothest. I have been interested in trying when my Mobil Delvac supply runs out? Could all this (speculative discussion) have anything to do with some oils meeting vs. exceeding manufacturers' specs? Great stuff...thanks to all for sharing.
I am not sure, but of the oils that I have tried so far (Chevon Delo 400 LW 5W-40, Shell Rotella T6 5W-40, Kendall SynBlend Super-Dxa 15W-40, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40, and Chevron Delo 400 XLE 10W-30), only the Shell and the Kendall oils meet the Ford specification for a Powerstroke (WSS-M2C171–E) with one being the noisiest and the other the quietest.

 

[CT8]

Unless you live in the high country or visit there when the winters are below freezing the 5W-40 syns offer little in the way of anything.

 

[mbacfp]

I totally agree CT8. Really want to try Kendall 15w 40 in my PSD...but Mobil Delvac 5w40 ongoing sales keep me stocked up. Thanks again to 2015_PSD for bring that oil to my attention. Have a great night.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Unless you live in the high country or visit there when the winters are below freezing the 5W-40 syns offer little in the way of anything.

Some, like Doug, have used them very successfully for extremely long drain intervals, and I don't think he ever pushed the limits of the 5w- part of things.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Not sure why more folks are not using a 10w30 CJ-4. All the major HD engine makers have been factory filling with 10w30 for at least 2-3 years now. I have found 10w30 to even be a little more shear stable than either a 5w40 or 15w40 in some of my stuff. More than up to the task.

 

[mbacfp]

TiredTrucker,

I have thought about it a lot as I've followed some of your other posts. My application is always rolling along with 19,000+ pounds and usually towing an additional 6,000 pound tow car. I have been following Ford's severe service recommendation. I realize OTR trucks that really work hard use 10w30...so I guess I figure as long as I can get Mobil Delvac 5w40 rather cheaply why not run it?