What is with Dealers And Over Filling The Oil ?
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Originally Posted By: CT8
A whole quarter of a Qt !!!!
I know!! That's 8 whole oz, an entire cup, A CUP!!
Personally, I've "overfilled" my last 2 oci's by 1/2 qt(1 pint), for one simple reason.
My mother and I have the pretty much the same car (My 09 Sable, Her 09 Taurus)same everything.
The Manual calls for 5.5qts. I noticed on the receipts from her oil changes, that the ford dealer is billing for 6 qts each time.. now i don't have as many pint jars of oil floating around.
A whole quarter of a Qt !!!!
I know!! That's 8 whole oz, an entire cup, A CUP!!
Personally, I've "overfilled" my last 2 oci's by 1/2 qt(1 pint), for one simple reason.
My mother and I have the pretty much the same car (My 09 Sable, Her 09 Taurus)same everything.
The Manual calls for 5.5qts. I noticed on the receipts from her oil changes, that the ford dealer is billing for 6 qts each time.. now i don't have as many pint jars of oil floating around.
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Im not worried about anything this is an oil forum im just commenting and im pretty sure its because they don't drain all the old oil out they want it done fast..
On my daughters traverse i drained almost a quart a little under 3/4 qt.
When we first put engines together after a rebuild we put the exact amount of oil in there.
On my daughters traverse i drained almost a quart a little under 3/4 qt.
When we first put engines together after a rebuild we put the exact amount of oil in there.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: RazorsEdge
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Have you guys ever heard of windage? Yes overfilling is worse than underfilling. Now, a 1/4 quart is probably not going to hurt anything on most vehicles but on some it will rob HP and decrease MPGs.
Yup,heard of it and again,I know alot of people that over-fill at least 1/2 to full quart,never have issues.
If you think dipsticks for all vehicles are 100% accurate,your fooling yourself.
Part of the engineering that goes into engines is directing oil drain back to the sump around and away from the crankshaft to avoid excess drag. I doubt they just willy-nilly mark a dipstick also, they are accurate.
Why don't the engineers design engines to hold 5 qts or 5 L or some round number? Why 4.8 qts? They have to assume people will just dump in 5 qts anyways.
Thats a good question for an engineer. However, having worked with more engineers than I care to remember, I can tell you that they never assume.
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: RazorsEdge
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Have you guys ever heard of windage? Yes overfilling is worse than underfilling. Now, a 1/4 quart is probably not going to hurt anything on most vehicles but on some it will rob HP and decrease MPGs.
Yup,heard of it and again,I know alot of people that over-fill at least 1/2 to full quart,never have issues.
If you think dipsticks for all vehicles are 100% accurate,your fooling yourself.
Part of the engineering that goes into engines is directing oil drain back to the sump around and away from the crankshaft to avoid excess drag. I doubt they just willy-nilly mark a dipstick also, they are accurate.
Why don't the engineers design engines to hold 5 qts or 5 L or some round number? Why 4.8 qts? They have to assume people will just dump in 5 qts anyways.
Thats a good question for an engineer. However, having worked with more engineers than I care to remember, I can tell you that they never assume.
How can you be sure of 1/4 quart overfill I say this as I see here that MANY owners do not check their oil as instructed in the owners manual. "I let it drain over night and check it cold"...yep you guys. Show me that in ANY auto manual..
Is it that's dipsticks are "inaccurate"? Or the propper procedures are ignored?
Is it that's dipsticks are "inaccurate"? Or the propper procedures are ignored?
Especially some GM engines that are known for serious oil consumption early in the game.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Which GM engine(s) is known for serious oil consumption early in the game ?
As other say probably because most people know absolutely nothing about cars and never even know they have to check it.
My Ford Capri takes exactly 5 Liters so even 20 years ago when it was serviced at the dealer they never got it wrong
My Ford Capri takes exactly 5 Liters so even 20 years ago when it was serviced at the dealer they never got it wrong
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: RazorsEdge
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Have you guys ever heard of windage? Yes overfilling is worse than underfilling. Now, a 1/4 quart is probably not going to hurt anything on most vehicles but on some it will rob HP and decrease MPGs.
Yup,heard of it and again,I know alot of people that over-fill at least 1/2 to full quart,never have issues.
If you think dipsticks for all vehicles are 100% accurate,your fooling yourself.
Part of the engineering that goes into engines is directing oil drain back to the sump around and away from the crankshaft to avoid excess drag. I doubt they just willy-nilly mark a dipstick also, they are accurate.
Why don't the engineers design engines to hold 5 qts or 5 L or some round number? Why 4.8 qts? They have to assume people will just dump in 5 qts anyways.
This is aggravating for my manual trans on the Gen Coupe. They list 2L for the fill but most gear oil comes in qts so there is always some extra or you short fill.
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: RazorsEdge
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Have you guys ever heard of windage? Yes overfilling is worse than underfilling. Now, a 1/4 quart is probably not going to hurt anything on most vehicles but on some it will rob HP and decrease MPGs.
Yup,heard of it and again,I know alot of people that over-fill at least 1/2 to full quart,never have issues.
If you think dipsticks for all vehicles are 100% accurate,your fooling yourself.
Part of the engineering that goes into engines is directing oil drain back to the sump around and away from the crankshaft to avoid excess drag. I doubt they just willy-nilly mark a dipstick also, they are accurate.
Why don't the engineers design engines to hold 5 qts or 5 L or some round number? Why 4.8 qts? They have to assume people will just dump in 5 qts anyways.
This is aggravating for my manual trans on the Gen Coupe. They list 2L for the fill but most gear oil comes in qts so there is always some extra or you short fill.
I seriously doubt they overfill intentionally to help a customer who doesn't check their oil. I think the car is overfilled because they don't allow the oil to drain long enough, and/or actually take the time to see how many qts. of oil the engine holds. A 1/4-1/2 qt. over the limit would be about right considering how fast they get through an oil change, assuming they're putting in the right amount of oil to begin with. DIY it will be right and you won't stress over it. Plus there's the added bonus knowing exactly what oil was used, and not having some unskilled oil change guy strip the drain plug or over tighten the oil filter.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Incorrect Oil Psychology (IOP) 101: Just a little more is better than Full.
Just like sizing oil filters. A little bigger is better than the regular one.
Just like viscosity. A little thicker is better than the recommended viscosity.
Just like jack and jack stand ratings. A little heavier is better than the what's needed.
Not a good analogy IMO.
Over-filling can possibly damage an engine. "DO NOT OVERFILL" is stamped, printed, molded on many things as a warning label.
Viscosity ranges are posted in various owners manuals. Also, the same engines that are offered in the US that are over in Europe and Australia have a higher viscosity rating. The Jeep 4.0 in England for example calls for a 15w40 or 5w40 depending on temperature.
Over-sized filters won't hurt a thing unless you're like me and want to use a spec'd filter for warranty purposes. If one is cleaning a sludged engine, an over-sized filter would arguably have more capacity and be a better buy since it's the same price. The PH16 for my Jeep for example vs. the PH8A filter.
Same with jacks and jack stands. Nothing wrong with additional, more than necessary strength for peace of mind.
None of these examples are equal to overfilling an engine.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Incorrect Oil Psychology (IOP) 101: Just a little more is better than Full.
Just like sizing oil filters. A little bigger is better than the regular one.
Just like viscosity. A little thicker is better than the recommended viscosity.
Just like jack and jack stand ratings. A little heavier is better than the what's needed.
Not a good analogy IMO.
Over-filling can possibly damage an engine. "DO NOT OVERFILL" is stamped, printed, molded on many things as a warning label.
Viscosity ranges are posted in various owners manuals. Also, the same engines that are offered in the US that are over in Europe and Australia have a higher viscosity rating. The Jeep 4.0 in England for example calls for a 15w40 or 5w40 depending on temperature.
Over-sized filters won't hurt a thing unless you're like me and want to use a spec'd filter for warranty purposes. If one is cleaning a sludged engine, an over-sized filter would arguably have more capacity and be a better buy since it's the same price. The PH16 for my Jeep for example vs. the PH8A filter.
Same with jacks and jack stands. Nothing wrong with additional, more than necessary strength for peace of mind.
None of these examples are equal to overfilling an engine.
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I added more oil to my mustang where it was just a bit above the top hole on the stick, about 1/8" We'd smell a sweet burning smell when at a stop. I had always s argued a quart extra was no problem but this proved me wrong. Or proved I shouldn't have bought a pos ford.
I drained and refilled and the smell is gone.
A friend's Cobra did the same thing, it didn't take much either. Here's an interesting article on the 4.6 problem
I added more oil to my mustang where it was just a bit above the top hole on the stick, about 1/8" We'd smell a sweet burning smell when at a stop. I had always s argued a quart extra was no problem but this proved me wrong. Or proved I shouldn't have bought a pos ford.
I drained and refilled and the smell is gone.
A friend's Cobra did the same thing, it didn't take much either. Here's an interesting article on the 4.6 problem
like a previous post, I suspect the book quantity is based on the engine being properly drains which takes time and garages don't have.
I always supply my own oil (M1) and provide 200ml less than in the manual and when I check the oil afterwards, the dipstick reads full!
technically, overfilling can do damage, but some engines are immune to it. The excess oil can get burnt off. To me burning oil is not healthy for the engine if it goes on for some time.
Should you worry about it? Can't say. If I had high power, high reving engine and you push it, then yes (I am very conscious about not overfilling my motorbike engine)
I always supply my own oil (M1) and provide 200ml less than in the manual and when I check the oil afterwards, the dipstick reads full!
technically, overfilling can do damage, but some engines are immune to it. The excess oil can get burnt off. To me burning oil is not healthy for the engine if it goes on for some time.
Should you worry about it? Can't say. If I had high power, high reving engine and you push it, then yes (I am very conscious about not overfilling my motorbike engine)
I pour the correct amount of oil into my toyotas to the ounce and it still shows overfilled by maybe 1/8th of a quart or 1/4 quart.
Remember a dipstick is not a magical sophisticated measuring device.
Remember a dipstick is not a magical sophisticated measuring device.
Our Santa Fe is supposed to get 4.8. So, yup, all 5 go in.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Incorrect Oil Psychology (IOP) 101: Just a little more is better than Full.
Just like sizing oil filters. A little bigger is better than the regular one.
Just like viscosity. A little thicker is better than the recommended viscosity.
Just like jack and jack stand ratings. A little heavier is better than the what's needed.
You'd actually get under a vehicle with made in China pot metal jack stands at rated capacity? Your last example is actually a pretty good reason for why people do your first two.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Incorrect Oil Psychology (IOP) 101: Just a little more is better than Full.
Just like sizing oil filters. A little bigger is better than the regular one.
Just like viscosity. A little thicker is better than the recommended viscosity.
Just like jack and jack stand ratings. A little heavier is better than the what's needed.
You'd actually get under a vehicle with made in China pot metal jack stands at rated capacity? Your last example is actually a pretty good reason for why people do your first two.
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