1950s scare of Detergent engine oils

Status
Not open for further replies.

FCD

Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
4,062
Location
Mallorca, Balearic Islands, Spain
Thought some of you might find this funny or interesting

November 1953


Sir,

As a motorist for 20 years I have had many cars, but only one rebored (during the war), because I have used only good quality oil. changed it when necessary, kept my engines clean myself ; now after all these years I find the oil companies have decided I am not capable of doing these tEings myself and they are putting into their oils washing powders called "detergent additives" or detergent dispensives," etc., they might even have chlorophyll added, anyway I don't like it.

What the oil companies don't tell us is that detergent oils have their limited uses, mainly for engines with hydraulic valve mechanisms which must be kept clean. But most engines on the British roads today have performed well and will continue to do so with a pure oil and no additives if kept clean.

No finer proof is needed than the number of vintage and near vintage cars on the roads today and the engines of a modern car and vintage car are very little different, both respond to good lubrication.

Really the object of this letter is to find out if there is any pure oil on the market today, if so can someone tell me the name before my engine is washed away ?

I am, Yours, etc..

Coventry. J. E. HAND,. "
 
Whenever something new comes along,there are always those who are afraid or consider it a conspiracy.
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Whenever something new comes along,there are always those who are afraid or consider it a conspiracy.


'Course, sometimes they are (optionally dead) right.
 
Got to remember we are dealing with Grp I and early Grp II oils ... Evolutionary period when it was not all blended well. Some of these oils did not work out well.

And most "gearheads" had already found additives they could add on their own that did what they wanted
smile.gif


Home brews were the mark of a knowledgeable gearhead
laugh.gif
 
I can imagine similar letters being written by the folks who will drive hours out of their way (sometimes even to other states) and pay significant premiums just to fill up with "pure" gasoline, while millions of vehicles have been running for trillions of miles on ethanol blends for years now without issue.
 
Makes perfect sense. You've been running on Group 1 or 2 non-detergent oil for years.

Put a detergent oil in that crankcase and you run a good chance of destroying the engine as all the dirt is loosened and plugs up the pick up screen, pump, or passages.

Talked with a Packard engine rebuilder about this at length, decades ago. The damage from detergent oils used to happen quite often with antique cars - put "modern" oil in it and destroy the engine. It was, in his words, good for his rebuilding business. Prior to overhauling the engine on the Packard, in 1976, he strongly recommended that Dad stick with non-detergent (SA) oil.

After the rebuild, with a clean engine, modern multi grade, detergent oils were preferred. That's what is in it now.

So the letter writer was completely justified in his concern. It's not about fearing what's new, it's about the backwards compatibility. Kind of like running E10 in an older car and having the ethanol eat the rubber carburetor floats, leading to flooding, stalling, and rich running. It's a valid concern when changes to basic materials aren't compatible with older cars.
 
Last edited:
Of course the guy who rebuilds engines is going to say its a problem. And you need to bring it in right away for rebuild, right?

Like unleaded gas destroyed all the valve seats on everyone's classic. Didn't happen.

Now ethanol is going to make everyone's head explode. You keep having to tell chicken littles in Florida the rest of the world has been using it for 30 years with no problems.

But the uneducated old cronies have to be upset about something.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Of course the guy who rebuilds engines is going to say its a problem. And you need to bring it in right away for rebuild, right?

Like unleaded gas destroyed all the valve seats on everyone's classic. Didn't happen.

Now ethanol is going to make everyone's head explode. You keep having to tell chicken littles in Florida the rest of the world has been using it for 30 years with no problems.

But the uneducated old cronies have to be upset about something.



In point of fact, he didn't say that it needed to be rebuilt, but he DID say not to use detergent oil until AFTER the rebuild.

If you had seen the layer of thick, black goo in the oil pan of a 1932 engine that had been run on non-detergent oil for 40+ years, you would not argue the point.

And if you had ever watched a car burn ('65 Impala, Rochester 4bbl) from a failed float that caused fuel to puddle on the manifold, you wouldn't scoff at float failure, either.
 
In the 50's we had regular oil and HD oil. Never heard of detergent oil. We ran bulk oil, 30 gal. bbl of 20 HD weight and 55 gal. bbl of 30HD weight. Early on we had Golf, Golfpride oil and greases and antifreeze. Later we had Schafer oil.

Re: Unleaded gas. I bought a new 1971 Dodge Dart /6. In 1981, with 107k miles, the engine was shot. The cylinders had a hugh ridge on top and the valves were warn to a knife edge with the seats worn to match.

I bought a 1974 Dart for parts to repair it, turned out the 74 was better shape then the 71 I was trying to fix. Repaired the 74 and sold the 71 to a junker for $10 and he hauled it away.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Not all new ideas are good ideas.

This was a "new" idea back in the 1970's




Used that stuff one time. Man was it a mess when it got on stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: Bud
... Used that stuff one time. Man was it a mess when it got on stuff.
And I used it for near 100,000 miles with zero problems. It wasn't any messier than normal oil, but it certainly made messes easier to spot.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Of course the guy who rebuilds engines is going to say its a problem. And you need to bring it in right away for rebuild, right?

Like unleaded gas destroyed all the valve seats on everyone's classic. Didn't happen.

Now ethanol is going to make everyone's head explode. You keep having to tell chicken littles in Florida the rest of the world has been using it for 30 years with no problems.

But the uneducated old cronies have to be upset about something.



In point of fact, he didn't say that it needed to be rebuilt, but he DID say not to use detergent oil until AFTER the rebuild.

If you had seen the layer of thick, black goo in the oil pan of a 1932 engine that had been run on non-detergent oil for 40+ years, you would not argue the point.

And if you had ever watched a car burn ('65 Impala, Rochester 4bbl) from a failed float that caused fuel to puddle on the manifold, you wouldn't scoff at float failure, either.


I've seen plenty. The 65 vintage qj probably had a brass float, so the ethanol isn't really the root cause. I'm an engineer you know and do know a bit about these things.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Of course the guy who rebuilds engines is going to say its a problem. And you need to bring it in right away for rebuild, right?

Like unleaded gas destroyed all the valve seats on everyone's classic. Didn't happen.

Now ethanol is going to make everyone's head explode. You keep having to tell chicken littles in Florida the rest of the world has been using it for 30 years with no problems.

But the uneducated old cronies have to be upset about something.



I guess the aviation and marine industry is not included in the "rest of the world"?

I deal with ethanol damaged fuel systems on a daily basis, caused by people who decide to run that stuff in their boats.

I also deal with it in classic cars that come in.

Ethanol fuel is a living nightmare on carburetor needles. I routinely have those come in and get pulled apart just to discover crust jamming up the needles.

The water absorption factor is terrible as well. Not uncommon to find fuel filters with rusted base plates.

Ethanol is not going to make everyone's head explode, but the damage ethanol fuel does has been completely documented on a daily basis by both marine and aviation agencies.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Of course the guy who rebuilds engines is going to say its a problem. And you need to bring it in right away for rebuild, right?

Like unleaded gas destroyed all the valve seats on everyone's classic. Didn't happen.

Now ethanol is going to make everyone's head explode. You keep having to tell chicken littles in Florida the rest of the world has been using it for 30 years with no problems.

But the uneducated old cronies have to be upset about something.



I guess the aviation and marine industry is not included in the "rest of the world"?

I deal with ethanol damaged fuel systems on a daily basis, caused by people who decide to run that stuff in their boats.

I also deal with it in classic cars that come in.

Ethanol fuel is a living nightmare on carburetor needles. I routinely have those come in and get pulled apart just to discover crust jamming up the needles.

The water absorption factor is terrible as well. Not uncommon to find fuel filters with rusted base plates.

Ethanol is not going to make everyone's head explode, but the damage ethanol fuel does has been completely documented on a daily basis by both marine and aviation agencies.


You're full of .

Florida is behind the rest of the world on this. It's only a problem in your mind.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Not all new ideas are good ideas.

This was a "new" idea back in the 1970's




Why not, what's wrong with solid lubes in EO?
 
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Not all new ideas are good ideas.

This was a "new" idea back in the 1970's




Why not, what's wrong with solid lubes in EO?


Originally Posted By: Jetronic
it wasn't anymore a bad idea than lm mos2 is...


But the reception seems to be different
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Ethanol is not going to make everyone's head explode, but the damage ethanol fuel does has been completely documented on a daily basis by both marine and aviation agencies.

There is one problem I have with that. I'm no fan of ethanol, but it's hardly the end of the world. My issue is that if the automotive world has been able to adjust to ethanol blended fuels, why haven't the other segments? OPE manufacturers are especially guilty, using ethanol fuels as excuses for their failings. Instead of improving their fueling systems, they simply made them cheaper because they had a convenient scapegoat at hand.

Ethanol is decidedly damaging to certain materials that can be used in fuel system design. Why use those items when making fuel systems, then? If GM can create a vehicle to run on E85, then B&S can surely create a lawnmower engine whose fuel system won't completely disintegrate after one year of E10. By the way, my B&S fuel system disintegrated after one year of premium E0. It was handy for my small engine guy to be able to blame ethanol, until I burst his bubble.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
In point of fact, he didn't say that it needed to be rebuilt, but he DID say not to use detergent oil until AFTER the rebuild.

If you had seen the layer of thick, black goo in the oil pan of a 1932 engine that had been run on non-detergent oil for 40+ years, you would not argue the point.

And if you had ever watched a car burn ('65 Impala, Rochester 4bbl) from a failed float that caused fuel to puddle on the manifold, you wouldn't scoff at float failure, either.


Facts mean little to the turtle as long as he can get in a shot at something! And to think he makes fun of others for not contributing. LMAO here at his continued antics...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top