Ford's TDCI / Duratorq range of 4 cylinder Diesel engines are proven and tested in Europe and have been for over 10 years, why doesn't Ford bring them to the US Fiestas and Focuses like VW has done successfully?
Why doesn't Ford bring their small TDI's to the US
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Probably can't meet the US clean air specifications. Ed
I spoke with a Ford engineer on this on a Ford product day at Dearborn proving grounds.
They don't see a marketing play with diesel cars and chose to go with the gasoline eco-boost product line.
Point in case is the Transit is available with diesel for certain commercial applications (chassis/cab).
Not available in consumer applications.
They don't see a marketing play with diesel cars and chose to go with the gasoline eco-boost product line.
Point in case is the Transit is available with diesel for certain commercial applications (chassis/cab).
Not available in consumer applications.
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
Foolish Americans won't!
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
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Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
why doesn't Ford bring them to the US Fiestas and Focuses like VW has done successfully?
Hardly. Right or wrong, like it or not, VW had to cheat the rules to be successful.
why doesn't Ford bring them to the US Fiestas and Focuses like VW has done successfully?
Hardly. Right or wrong, like it or not, VW had to cheat the rules to be successful.
Need turbo diesel small/med SUV.
Not Compact car.
Not Compact car.
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Foolish Americans won't!
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
I don't know about that.
Given my experience trying to keep MB Sprinter 3.0L diesels alive - and I have may hundreds in my fleet, could be they are very smart Americans.
Foolish Americans won't!
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
I don't know about that.
Given my experience trying to keep MB Sprinter 3.0L diesels alive - and I have may hundreds in my fleet, could be they are very smart Americans.
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Foolish Americans won't!
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
If we were talking about the pre-emission diesels then I would agree, to a point, as even then diesel did not make sense for a lot of people. Now with MPG robbing emission equipment added, diesel fuel cost actually being higher than gasoline it makes little sense to purchase a diesel option outside of a commercial setting.
There is nothing foolish about not getting the diesel option that, for the most, will take a better part of a decade to pay for itself.
Foolish Americans won't!
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
If we were talking about the pre-emission diesels then I would agree, to a point, as even then diesel did not make sense for a lot of people. Now with MPG robbing emission equipment added, diesel fuel cost actually being higher than gasoline it makes little sense to purchase a diesel option outside of a commercial setting.
There is nothing foolish about not getting the diesel option that, for the most, will take a better part of a decade to pay for itself.
The VW TDI option wasn't very expensive.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Foolish Americans won't!
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
If we were talking about the pre-emission diesels then I would agree, to a point, as even then diesel did not make sense for a lot of people. Now with MPG robbing emission equipment added, diesel fuel cost actually being higher than gasoline it makes little sense to purchase a diesel option outside of a commercial setting.
There is nothing foolish about not getting the diesel option that, for the most, will take a better part of a decade to pay for itself.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Foolish Americans won't!
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
For the same reasons most automakers don't offer many diesel options in the US ... Americans won't buy them.
If we were talking about the pre-emission diesels then I would agree, to a point, as even then diesel did not make sense for a lot of people. Now with MPG robbing emission equipment added, diesel fuel cost actually being higher than gasoline it makes little sense to purchase a diesel option outside of a commercial setting.
There is nothing foolish about not getting the diesel option that, for the most, will take a better part of a decade to pay for itself.
Different emission standards that usually require different equipment (SCR systems) to meet. The engines are allowed more CO in the US and more NOx in Europe.
http://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02/diffe...-of-dieselgate/
http://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02/diffe...-of-dieselgate/
Right now around here diesel is consistently .20 cents more that regular. So please tell me why I need to spend more money on a noisy, smelly engine that gets the same mileage as most gassers today.
For years I hauled petroleum. Diesel was a bulk commodity to fill in between loads of gear oil and such. I'd come home at the end of a day or night and my (now) wife would ask me to take off my shirt and pants outside. She has a very strong reaction to diesel aromatics. She absolutely will not let a diesel car or pick-up in the driveway ...
OK, I've lived with the racket, smell and small weeps and seeps of many diesel engines (car, Big Rig, Boats, stationary) and although they are mostly reliable as the day is long, they are not easy to live with. Especially in boats where they leak into the bilge and that then gets into nooks and cranny's you can not clean
Point being, they are not for everybody ...
OTOH, I always thought Jeep was off their rocker to not offer the MB diesel in the wrangler. Low-end TQ and better mileage, just what a back-country vehicle should have
OK, I've lived with the racket, smell and small weeps and seeps of many diesel engines (car, Big Rig, Boats, stationary) and although they are mostly reliable as the day is long, they are not easy to live with. Especially in boats where they leak into the bilge and that then gets into nooks and cranny's you can not clean
Point being, they are not for everybody ...
OTOH, I always thought Jeep was off their rocker to not offer the MB diesel in the wrangler. Low-end TQ and better mileage, just what a back-country vehicle should have
Canadians buy diesels, always have, so there are many OEMs who offer a diesel motor here and not in the US model equivalent. When they do, at 1/10th population, they often sell more units to the Canadian market than the US one.
I remember driving the company 1990 Ford F250 in Minneapolis, where the owners lived during the winter.
We had to fill up at the high pressure pumps at truck stops, there were exactly two filling stations in Minneapolis/St Paul that had diesel on offer. I understand it's much better today, although it would not surprise me to learn there are still stations in the US that don't have diesel at the pump.
Back home in Canada, every single filling station, even back then, had diesel at the pump. Oh, and Ford didn't offer a diesel engine in the US models; we always had some kind of drama trying to get service at the dealership there.
You may see it as being common today to have diesel options in the US market, but the reality is it's not common today compared to virtually every market in the world, and that includes the Americas outside the US, it's just a bit more common in the US than it once was.
I remember driving the company 1990 Ford F250 in Minneapolis, where the owners lived during the winter.
We had to fill up at the high pressure pumps at truck stops, there were exactly two filling stations in Minneapolis/St Paul that had diesel on offer. I understand it's much better today, although it would not surprise me to learn there are still stations in the US that don't have diesel at the pump.
Back home in Canada, every single filling station, even back then, had diesel at the pump. Oh, and Ford didn't offer a diesel engine in the US models; we always had some kind of drama trying to get service at the dealership there.
You may see it as being common today to have diesel options in the US market, but the reality is it's not common today compared to virtually every market in the world, and that includes the Americas outside the US, it's just a bit more common in the US than it once was.
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
Right now around here diesel is consistently .20 cents more that regular. So please tell me why I need to spend more money on a noisy, smelly engine that gets the same mileage as most gassers today.
I know when I used to have one, it handily met EPA estimates. And did not plummet when pushed beyond the speed limit. Nor did it care about sitting and idling for long periods of time (it was a true fuel sipper). I don't know if the newer crop is likewise. The newer gas motors do seem to have caught up, and I agree, I wouldn't go back to diesel. It was fun, but at the moment, it looks bleak.
People complain about the smell, but when I went back to gas I was shocked at how aweful the stuff is. Noxious. I know it evaporates quickly but diesel oil on my hands didn't bother me--gasoline vapors, well, people huff that stuff to get a high.
Right now around here diesel is consistently .20 cents more that regular. So please tell me why I need to spend more money on a noisy, smelly engine that gets the same mileage as most gassers today.
I know when I used to have one, it handily met EPA estimates. And did not plummet when pushed beyond the speed limit. Nor did it care about sitting and idling for long periods of time (it was a true fuel sipper). I don't know if the newer crop is likewise. The newer gas motors do seem to have caught up, and I agree, I wouldn't go back to diesel. It was fun, but at the moment, it looks bleak.
People complain about the smell, but when I went back to gas I was shocked at how aweful the stuff is. Noxious. I know it evaporates quickly but diesel oil on my hands didn't bother me--gasoline vapors, well, people huff that stuff to get a high.
Diesel is cheaper than unleaded here, although due to demand, it does go up in price during winter months, and can sometimes be more than regular unleaded in January & February.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
OTOH, I always thought Jeep was off their rocker to not offer the MB diesel in the wrangler. Low-end TQ and better mileage, just what a back-country vehicle should have
They got close when they had the diesel in the 2012 Patriot for 1 year only prior to the 2013 emission standards.
OTOH, I always thought Jeep was off their rocker to not offer the MB diesel in the wrangler. Low-end TQ and better mileage, just what a back-country vehicle should have
They got close when they had the diesel in the 2012 Patriot for 1 year only prior to the 2013 emission standards.
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
The VW TDI option wasn't very expensive.
Which years are we talking about here? If it's the recent models just before the diesel fiasco, then if you compare VWs new 1.8 TSI engine, the diesel option makes very little sense. VWs old 5 cylinder 2.5L engine pushed a lot of the TDIs out the door though.
The VW TDI option wasn't very expensive.
Which years are we talking about here? If it's the recent models just before the diesel fiasco, then if you compare VWs new 1.8 TSI engine, the diesel option makes very little sense. VWs old 5 cylinder 2.5L engine pushed a lot of the TDIs out the door though.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Probably can't meet the US clean air specifications. Ed
Exact same Clean Air Regulations in Canada.
Probably can't meet the US clean air specifications. Ed
Exact same Clean Air Regulations in Canada.
Well... The truth is that the 4 cylinder duratorq engines is pure breed [censored]. They have a really narrow power/torque band. And they run very rough and noise. And also all ford diesels smoke soot black within 200.000 km. Ford shouldn't make there own diesels. They just ain't good at it.
I know it from a good friend who works at at ford dealer. He used to work for a Renault dealer. And when talking about diesels. It was night and day. Plus I maintain 2 mondeo diesels at work.
I know it from a good friend who works at at ford dealer. He used to work for a Renault dealer. And when talking about diesels. It was night and day. Plus I maintain 2 mondeo diesels at work.
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