To DIY or not to DIY

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Ok so here is the scenario.....the kid's 2009 Civic 110k runs great.(paid for) She lives in the city and walks to work so the car gets driven
My question to the members is: Should I?

1. Take it to a shop and pay $900-1100 ( I have a real good Honda indy shop)
2. Buy the gauges, vacuum pump, refrigerant, and a reman kit from AZ for $650 and DIY?

I have never done a AC system yet but think I might want to venture this far into the unknown. Is AC work an art form or is it bolt & go?

What say all?
 
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1. Pay the A/C shop to recover the refrigerant
2. Replace all the components that need replacement
3. Buy a disposable can of pressurized A/C flush solvent
4. Pay the A/C shop to vacuum the system and recharge the refrigerant

Taking compressors out of cars and bolting ones in feels a lot like replacing starters and alternators. Dealing with the condenser, evaporator, and expansion valve feels much like replacing heating components. If those items are in your comfort zone, you can handle this job.

As for the compressor, avoid buying a reman. The best thing to do is find a good deal on an aftermarket unit from an OE supplier. Most Honda A/C compressors are from Denso. Sometimes Amazon, Rockauto, or eBay good deals on new OE supplied compressors.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
1. Pay the A/C shop to recover the refrigerant
2. Replace all the components that need replacement
3. Buy a disposable can of pressurized A/C flush solvent
4. Pay the A/C shop to vacuum the system and recharge the refrigerant

Taking compressors out of cars and bolting ones in feels a lot like replacing starters and alternators. Dealing with the condenser, evaporator, and expansion valve feels much like replacing heating components. If those items are in your comfort zone, you can handle this job.

As for the compressor, avoid buying a reman. The best thing to do is find a good deal on an aftermarket unit from an OE supplier. Most Honda A/C compressors are from Denso. Sometimes Amazon, Rockauto, or eBay good deals on new OE supplied compressors.


It won't hurt it to drive it to the ac shop to have it recharged? Where do I get ac flush solvent?
 
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You need to exercise caution around removing components. The aluminum parts aren't as tough as the other parts of the car.

I would DIY it. If there is r134a in the system you'll need a shop to recover that first.

As mentioned remanufactured parts aren't the way to go. Make sure the compressor has pag oil in it as well. You can get the gauges and vacuum pump at HF and use the 20% off coupons.
 
I'd hotwire the compressor for a few seconds and see if it blows cold. If so, you have an issue in the control circuitry or low/high freon.

You can check the pressure switch(es) with an ohm-meter.

I myself am more comfortable around electronics than refrigerant, you could at least triage the parts about which replacement doesn't open the system.
 
AC is not really a DIY unless you: 1. invest in all the tools necessary, costs can be substantial 2. Completely understand modern AC systems in general, and YOUR specific system and the proper oils, and refrigerant. Your issue may be something you are not even thinking of.
 
The thing I dislike about A/C repairs is recharging the ratio % of PAG/POE correctly.
I've had factory OEM parts fail after only 4-5 years after replacing something on a 20-year-old A/C system.

I would have a shop at least look at or diagnose the problem before going all-in. Never tried it, but Meineke mails me 'Free A/C system check' coupons all the time.
 
The system is working weakly so I went to HF and bought the manifold gauges for $59. I will also get a vacuum pump and the assorted tools to be able to DIY a compressor and all of the system parts. I spoke to another mechanic friend who is big into Hondas and he said they are known for AC system problems and if you made it past 100k with the factory charge you are doing fine. The relay burn out are caused by the compressors starting to go. It's a symptom not a root cause. He also said if you get a compressor you should also change out the condenser, expansion valve and dryer as they will all be loaded with contaminants from the compressor guts shedding all through out the system and the newer condensers can't be flushed.

So basically if you tear into it...be ready to do the majority of the system. Then flush the lines, pull vacuum for 2 hours and recharge.
 
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Thanks about 1000 times for that video....I heard of this condition once before...and this Civic lives in a winter salt bath so I am going to take a real hard look at the clutch on the compressor.



More news at 11
13.gif


Now I am on a mission...................
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Doog
No video


Here is the link

link to the video

I don't understand why folks don't know how to embed videos properly. Like this...



Update: Huh. I see that KrisZ already did embed the video properly, but I am unable to delete this post.
 
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Originally Posted By: madRiver
Replace ac relay again. Maybe you got a bad one. They are known weak part.


Relays can be bench tested. No need to replace unless actually bad.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Replace ac relay again. Maybe you got a bad one. They are known weak part.


Relays can be bench tested. No need to replace unless actually bad.


The relay is $6 at AAP...I bought 3....
grin.gif
...it's not the relay
 
UPDATE: Ok so I went to HF and bought the manifold gauges. Put them on the car and both showed a low refrigerant charge. Added in about 1/2 ounce of IR dye and maybe 8 ounces of refrigerant ( the normal charge is 16 oz.) to get the low and hi side gauges to come up to spec according to my Honda chart. Took it for a 5 mile ride and with the air on low speed fan (recirc off) and set to the lowest temp my thermometer is showing 42F at the port. (Not bad for a 2009 with 110k IMO since my new Avalon runs at 40f). So, now I'll let her drive it for several weeks and check with a black light for leaks.

More to come.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
UPDATE: Ok so I went to HF and bought the manifold gauges. Put them on the car and both showed a low refrigerant charge. Added in about 1/2 ounce of IR dye and maybe 8 ounces of refrigerant ( the normal charge is 16 oz.) to get the low and hi side gauges to come up to spec according to my Honda chart. Took it for a 5 mile ride and with the air on low speed fan (recirc off) and set to the lowest temp my thermometer is showing 42F at the port. (Not bad for a 2009 with 110k IMO since my new Avalon runs at 40f). So, now I'll let her drive it for several weeks and check with a black light for leaks.


A quick primer on evaporators :
Liquid enters the bottom of the evaporator, boils as it absorbs heat and leaves the top of the evaporator as *mostly* vapor. If you have insufficient refrigerant you end up with entirely superheated vapor leaving the evaporator. The problem there is the system relies on the "mostly vapor" part to have enough liquid in there to transport oil. So if you have an insufficient charge you end up with an increasing pool of oil sitting in the evaporator. This impacts cooling as it impairs evaporator efficiency, but worse is it slowly starves the compressor of lubricant. The compressor wear rates increase, which pumps out fine metal grunge into the system. This lodges in the condenser, pipework and expansion device and is why they generally need replacing when you do the compressor (it generally looks like a fine aluminium coloured valve grinding paste). Keep your refrigerant levels up and these problems occur much less frequently. Most compressors don't die, they are killed due to lack of lubrication.

So, the point of that was to say be careful about putting in refrigerant to get the "gauges to come up to spec" as you may well not have enough in there to properly transport oil.

This is also why it really doesn't hurt to have a system "re-gassed" (ie weigh out, weigh in) every couple of years. It'll make things last a lot longer in the long run. All systems leak. Newer are better than older, but they still leak. Now 20% loss in charge on a big system may not impact the performance enough for you to notice, but it certainly will impact oil return and system overall longevity.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Ok so here is the scenario.....the kid's 2009 Civic 110k runs great.(paid for) She lives in the city and walks to work so the car gets driven
My question to the members is: Should I?

1. Take it to a shop and pay $900-1100 ( I have a real good Honda indy shop)
2. Buy the gauges, vacuum pump, refrigerant, and a reman kit from AZ for $650 and DIY?

I have never done a AC system yet but think I might want to venture this far into the unknown. Is AC work an art form or is it bolt & go?

What say all?


Many (8-9?) years ago my 99 Avy took a rock in the condenser. I had never done any ac work before but figured DIY would save more than enough to pay for gages and a nice vac pump. Installed a new Denso condenser, added oil per service manual and carefully added a weighed charge of refrigerant after pulling and holding full vac for a couple hours to make sure all moisture was pulled off drier. Has been working like a champ ever since. I'd say go for it if you enjoy wrenching and learning new stuff.
 
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