Oh well BRAKE story

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2009 Subaru Forester (standard 4 cylinder) w/98K.

REQUEST: Friend's son requested help changing 4 rotors and pads. I agreed.

FOUND: Rears likely original (pads gone-heavily pitted rotors-clearly "wobbly" wear pattern)
.............Fronts in OK shape-obviously done at some point-one odd ridge in the middle of the RF rotors swept area

DECISION: Do 'em all since we had the parts.

LEFT SIDE: Went off without a hitch.
RIGHT SIDE: Rear caliper frozen solid. Immediately resigned to buying a rebuilt unit from RockAuto-no biggie.
...................Front bracket bolts hideously rusty-swollen with rust. Bottom one FINALLY turned out.
...................The top bolt was tightened by the devil himself.
...................Since I saw "white stuff" on the lower bolt the lads father and I agreed to applying heat.
...................Adding leverage worked....the bolt wouldn't even pass through the non-threaded hole due to rust.
...................LSS, I melted the dust boot a bit and we'll be replacing the caliper there too.
...................Bought 2 replacement metric bolts for that side and they screwed in just fine so he can drive it locally (literally 1 mile trips).

I offered to pay for the caliper and the kid said it was OK but I feel like a dippy-doo.
I know, I know, I was helping him (as I've done before) and we're all friends etc.

....but I feel like a dip. Kira
 
We all feel like dippy doos every now and then.
smile.gif


Plus dealing with rusted bolts, pieces can easily result in torn rubber boots, seals etc. Even happens to the pros.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
An '09 was that bad?
Wow!


This is my thinking.

I am assuming the "white stuff" was salt?
 
I would have soaked them overnight if possible and hit it with the impact gun. If I couldn't soak them overnight then at least for an hour or while doing the rest of the work before hitting it.
If you don't own an impact gun take an old 1/2 drive POS ratchet and give it a few good whacks with a dead heavy blow hammer, it will usually shock it loose without heat (I haven't needed heat that I can remember).
An old Craftsman V series ratchet has been taking this sort of abuse for as long as I can remember and its still going strong.

Make sure the hold the ratchet head on the bolt when hitting it, A breaker bar while applying more leverage is too long to use the full effect of the hammer shock almost like using long extensions on an impact gun.

BTW I work on old cars that have lived in the salt belt their whole life so rotten fasteners are an everyday thing.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
I would have soaked them overnight if possible and hit it with the impact gun. If I couldn't soak them overnight then at least for an hour or while doing the rest of the work before hitting it.
If you don't own an impact gun take an old 1/2 drive POS ratchet and give it a few good whacks with a dead heavy blow hammer, it will usually shock it loose without heat (I haven't needed heat that I can remember).
An old Craftsman V series ratchet has been taking this sort of abuse for as long as I can remember and its still going strong.

Make sure the hold the ratchet head on the bolt when hitting it, A breaker bar while applying more leverage is too long to use the full effect of the hammer shock almost like using long extensions on an impact gun.


I've always used this technique with box ends. Never considered using a ratchet because I did't think they'd be able to withstand the abuse. I'll have to try it next time.. I guess my Craftsman does have a lifetime warranty..
21.gif
 
If they took that Subaru to a mechanic they would have gotten a nice repair bill esp for the rear brake job.

Don't feel guilty helping them out. I hope you put anti seize on all the parts for the next time.
 
Oh yes, we put anti-seize on darn near everything.

The "white stuff" I failed to identify in my OP was a thread lock compound (I think) and that's what made me think of applying heat.

I got replacement Grade 8.8 (what NAPA Ticonderoga had) bolts and they screwed right in.

That top one wouldn't back out through the non-threaded hole BLEW my mind.

The rear rubber bushing in the control arm was dry and crispy (to the point of looking like the gills of a mushrooms cap) as well. Kira
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad


I've always used this technique with box ends. Never considered using a ratchet because I did't think they'd be able to withstand the abuse. I'll have to try it next time.. I guess my Craftsman does have a lifetime warranty..
21.gif



I use them also if there is room for the 6pt. I have a couple of sets of Proto 6pt that I despise, I keep beating the $hit out of them hoping they break so I can toss them and not feel bad about throwing an expensive tool out.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Trav
I would have soaked them overnight if possible and hit it with the impact gun. If I couldn't soak them overnight then at least for an hour or while doing the rest of the work before hitting it.
If you don't own an impact gun take an old 1/2 drive POS ratchet and give it a few good whacks with a dead heavy blow hammer, it will usually shock it loose without heat (I haven't needed heat that I can remember).
An old Craftsman V series ratchet has been taking this sort of abuse for as long as I can remember and its still going strong.

Make sure the hold the ratchet head on the bolt when hitting it, A breaker bar while applying more leverage is too long to use the full effect of the hammer shock almost like using long extensions on an impact gun.


I've always used this technique with box ends. Never considered using a ratchet because I did't think they'd be able to withstand the abuse. I'll have to try it next time.. I guess my Craftsman does have a lifetime warranty..
21.gif



What IS it with American's and ratchet abuse?

The above is the closest I've heard to an explanation, and it doesn't appear to make sense.

I measured my breaker bar against my ratchet. It's 0.5 cms longer. If that was too long, I could fit a shorter bar to it. A mild hassle, but I've only got one 1/2 ratchet, I find it quite useful, and I'm not about to start hitting it with big hammers.

If I wanted to break it I'd lend it to the GF's father. Like the last one. Perhaps he hits them with hammers.
 
Most 1/2" breaker bars are long 18"+ and the hammer tends to bounce on them, the short 3/8 drive are too weak on the ends to take much abuse.
The other problems with breaker bars is once the bolt moves slightly you cant get the bar parallel again for a good straight strike, you usually end up striking it on an angle, with the ratchet just click it up a few teeth, the breaker bar can also move on its joint when struck.

The ratchet is easier to work with to get a good solid blow. I don't use a good ratchet for this abuse, my good ratchets get used as ratchets, not breaker bars with pipes or take a beating from a hammer for that I use a $5 old Craftsman from the flea market.
Get some old cheap ratchet and try both.
 
How about the handheld impact driver? Many of them allow to install socket instead of screw driver bit in it. I think only 3/8 sockets fit on them. If you have the 3/8 socket and that impact driver and big hammer, that would be the best thing.
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
2009 Subaru Forester (standard 4 cylinder) w/98K.

REQUEST: Friend's son requested help changing 4 rotors and pads. I agreed.

FOUND: Rears likely original (pads gone-heavily pitted rotors-clearly "wobbly" wear pattern)
.............Fronts in OK shape-obviously done at some point-one odd ridge in the middle of the RF rotors swept area

DECISION: Do 'em all since we had the parts.

LEFT SIDE: Went off without a hitch.
RIGHT SIDE: Rear caliper frozen solid. Immediately resigned to buying a rebuilt unit from RockAuto-no biggie.
...................Front bracket bolts hideously rusty-swollen with rust. Bottom one FINALLY turned out.
...................The top bolt was tightened by the devil himself.
...................Since I saw "white stuff" on the lower bolt the lads father and I agreed to applying heat.
...................Adding leverage worked....the bolt wouldn't even pass through the non-threaded hole due to rust.
...................LSS, I melted the dust boot a bit and we'll be replacing the caliper there too.
...................Bought 2 replacement metric bolts for that side and they screwed in just fine so he can drive it locally (literally 1 mile trips).

I offered to pay for the caliper and the kid said it was OK but I feel like a dippy-doo.
I know, I know, I was helping him (as I've done before) and we're all friends etc.

....but I feel like a dip. Kira



Job well done!
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Most 1/2" breaker bars are long 18"+ and the hammer tends to bounce on them, the short 3/8 drive are too weak on the ends to take much abuse.
The other problems with breaker bars is once the bolt moves slightly you cant get the bar parallel again for a good straight strike, you usually end up striking it on an angle, with the ratchet just click it up a few teeth, the breaker bar can also move on its joint when struck.

The ratchet is easier to work with to get a good solid blow. I don't use a good ratchet for this abuse, my good ratchets get used as ratchets, not breaker bars with pipes or take a beating from a hammer for that I use a $5 old Craftsman from the flea market.
Get some old cheap ratchet and try both.



Maybe we're talking about different styles of breaker bar, or I'm misusing the term. Availability of tools is much better in the US, as in most places that aren't Taiwan.

(for me "a $5 old Craftsman from the flea market." would be a good ratchet :))

My main 1/2" one here has a sliding bit on a bar, retained by a couple of spring loaded detent thingies, so it'd be possible to remove the bar and substitute a smaller one. My "reserve" (unused so far) one just has the bit loose, to be used with various extension bars, so it gives variable length directly.

The first isn't 18" long, and with a sliding bit probably not as heavy duty as the one you describe. When I need to I use a piece of pipe over it as a lever extension.

Not having enough arc of lever movement to use a breaker bar (especially with a six-point socket) does make sense, though once its moved once with the hammer I'd think you could often just lever it without further hammering.
 
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Okay now I know what you are talking about, a sliding T bar. They still come in some sets here and in Europe but are seldom used but sure beat one of those with a hammer.
The breaker bars I am talking about and the most common tool refered to as a breaker bar are these..



You can get them in shorter lengths but most people don't as they offer no real advantage over a ratchet at that point. Working in the wheel well or under the car without a lift sometimes is a challenge for room to get a good swing, on a badly rousted fastener you might need to move it with a hammer blow a few times before you can get enough leverage to use a ratchet as intended.
Fortunately here there are so many old Craftsman ratchets at the flea markets they almost throw them after you, everyone and his brother got at least a one in a starter set over the last 50 years.

The old ones were well enough made and strong but the grip was awful to use all day, they were an entry level pro tool a kid out of trade school could buy and go to work with not like the garbage sold today.
 
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