Why do factory filters get such a bad rep?

[MisterBen]

Not even necessarily here, but in general.

My Toyota 4Runner uses a cartridge filter, and I have a terrible time finding filters that are built better than the Toyota filter. Fram's older Tough Guard models look pretty decent (Korean), but it's hard to find one in a box that hasn't been beat up. They have changed their design to include plastic end caps and what looks like flimsy media, and now made in China, and it does not look as nice as the older ones.

The Wix filters look just awful, with irregular media that looks kind of flimsy--and the recommended OCI for regular use is 10k miles.

The Toyota filters are all very well assembled with good QC. I am sure some of the aftermarket filters have a smaller particle rating, but the Toyota filters have all come out looking like what they went in.

There are also very few options locally for this filter. Wix doesn't make one in the XP line, Fram doesn't make an Ultra in this line. One of the STP extended filters looks fairly decent, but it's a $16 filter.

For my wife's new Mazda, the OEM filters are very well built, and similar to the Toyota/Denso can filters as they come with plastic sealed on the end. It seems for the Mazda this is it, except the Mobil 1 filter, as some claim the other filters like Fram that fit don't have the right oil bypass for the engine.

It seems like a lot of people universally disregard OEM filters, some on this board but a lot just in general. Maybe it is the historic cost associated with dealer parts? Or is it mostly that Toyota and Mazda happen to make pretty decent filters but a lot of OEMs don't?

 

[Falken]

They don't get a bad rep with any car brand.

People just like to try and save a few bucks off going to the dealership.

Others like to find a "better" filter for the same price.

Do you get your oil at the dealership parts counter?

I have, once, and it was for TGMO 0W20 to try out in my Honda!

I chickend out as people have complained that it increases engine noise, sold it to a buddy at school...

I do get ATF and Brake Fluid from the dealer though...

On second thought, my second OCI I used a Honda blue filter which is just a FRAM.

I like Wix filters, so I go with those. I don't want to pay 11-12$ for a Honda OEM filter when I get Wix filters for half that price from a local jobber.

You must be thinking of another website, OEM filters here get a good reputation from what I have read on BITOG anyway.

 

[MisterBen]

Originally Posted By: Falken
They don't get a bad rep with any car brand.

People just like to try and save a few bucks off going to the dealership.

Others like to find a "better" filter for the same price.

Do you get your oil at the dealership parts counter?

I have, once, and it was for TGMO 0W20 to try out in my Honda!

I chickend out as people have complained that it increases engine noise, sold it to a buddy at school...

I do get ATF and Brake Fluid from the dealer though...

On second thought, my second OCI I used a Honda blue filter which is just a FRAM.

I like Wix filters, so I go with those. I don't want to pay 11-12$ for a Honda OEM filter when I get Wix filters for half that price from a local jobber.

You must be thinking of another website, OEM filters here get a good reputation from what I have read on BITOG anyway.



I usually get the Toyota & Mazda filters for the same price or cheaper than the aftermarket filters. Around here the basic Wix filter is just over $9, which is about the same or higher than the Toyota filters. I think I paid almost $10 for that Tough Guard at Wal Mart. I bought the Toyota filters in a case, not sure what I paid for them, but I think it was only $5-6 a piece (from a local WA dealer).

I did the first OCI with this vehicle at 1500 miles with TGMO, and it was pricey--so only once. I think I paid something ridiculous like $65 OTD or so for 7 quarts of oil. My only defense is I was in a hurry and was new to the 0w20 stuff and people said it was good oil.

I don't specifically mean this board, but I have seen a few posts from people discounting factory filters. I mean in general, I've seen a lot off this board that tends to discredit the factory parts.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

DENSO

 

[DuckRyder]

Can you provide a picture or other documentation of these (EDIT :$10.00) Chinese and Korean Fram Tough Guards? (EDIT: Is this some sort of Cartridge?)

Factory filters are as a general rule fine, and I'm really not aware of any with a "bad rap" aside possibly from the AC E-Cores and they also are fine.

But it would not be BITOG if there wasn't a bunch of hand wringing and obsessing about things that don't make a whit.

 

[goodtimes]

Sometimes the grass seems greener on the other side. Often the greenest grass is already where one is. Very often. The OE filters are built from OE specs and dimensions and have the OE warranty, can't go wrong. I still like to play with other brands but it is just like playing with toys basically. Since the Amsoil graph Toyota filters have been bashed quite a bit. Everyone seems to love Hundyai though, with no specs. Just life I guess.

 

[NormanBuntz]

Naturally none of the carmakers manufacture their own oil filters. So personal preference and perceived quality depends on who the OEM filter supplier is. Contracts can change over the years, so for Honda it may be Fram, it may be Honeywell or it may be Filtech that supplies its filters.

For the past 20 years, I've owned mostly Japanese or Korean made vehicles. I've used mostly Asian made filters by Nippon, Denso, Full and Union Sangyo with never a problem. Of course, they favor flow over filtration. Lately I scored good deals on Fram Pro Synthetic and Castrol SFX filters and will be using them next.

 

[MisterBen]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Can you provide a picture or other documentation of these (EDIT :$10.00) Chinese and Korean Fram Tough Guards? (EDIT: Is this some sort of Cartridge?)


It is a cartridge filter. I don't have any pictures handy, but it's even on the box I think now. There are several filters of this design that have switched to plastic end caps, but the OE, plain Wix and original Tough Guard filters don't have end caps at all. There is just a small ring glued to the ends that keep the pleats in place.

I don't know if I still have the receipt for the oil filters. It may be at my other house. Next time I am at WalMart, I will try to remember to take a couple pictures. They had one Korean Fram left, the rest were the new ones.

What is really crazy is the parts stores don't carry the filters, like Purolator or Bosch. Even the Wal Mart where I am coming from didn't even have shelf space for the air or oil filter for the 4Runner. I think they used the same one from 2010-present.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

DENSO

 

[callbay]

This pertains to boats but a few years ago I checked a Mercruiser factory oil filter I saw at Wal-Mart and from the outside it looked exactly like a Wal-Mart Super Tec at the time. Very cheaply built.

I checked the Mercruiser filters recently at Wal-Mart and they had not changed.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: MisterBen
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Can you provide a picture or other documentation of these (EDIT :$10.00) Chinese and Korean Fram Tough Guards? (EDIT: Is this some sort of Cartridge?)


It is a cartridge filter. I don't have any pictures handy, but it's even on the box I think now. There are several filters of this design that have switched to plastic end caps, but the OE, plain Wix and original Tough Guard filters don't have end caps at all. There is just a small ring glued to the ends that keep the pleats in place.

I don't know if I still have the receipt for the oil filters. It may be at my other house. Next time I am at WalMart, I will try to remember to take a couple pictures. They had one Korean Fram left, the rest were the new ones.


Don't sweat it too much - I was thinking spin ons which are about 6.00 and USA made.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Mahle makes a great filter for Toyota. Made in Austria

Honda's OEM filters are cardboard Frams. Ford's factory filters aren't even available for purchase, and aren't even made by the same manufacturer as the Motorcrafts you can buy.

GM's OEM Ecotec cartridges are usually Hengst, although some older ones were Purflux. The Europeans usually use Mann or Mahle, sometimes Hengst and Purflux. All are high quality.

Most OEM filters aren't the most efficient, either. Usually around 50-80%. Whereas many aftermarket filters approach 99% efficiency.

 

[Vuflanovsky]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Most OEM filters aren't the most efficient, either. Usually around 50-80%. Whereas many aftermarket filters approach 99% efficiency.


I think this gets to the heart of the OEM filters getting a bad rep...you'll see "flow over filtration" mentioned a lot in reference to OEM filters vs. the aftermarket. You'll also see folks seeing a nominal spec listed ( when there isn't any other information available )as defining how good a filter is or isn't. In the internet world, if it doesn't have a certain listed spec it's often deemed as substandard even if it isn't.

 

[fdcg27]

Japanese OEM spec filters generally offer lower filtering efficiency than anything you'd buy aftermarket.
The OEM filters are pretty inexpensive bought in quantities of five or six and are certainly a valid choice.
If the OEM engineers thought that there was any advantage in higher single-pass efficiency, then that's what they would have specified for their suppliers.
No advantage in using the OEM labeled filter, but probably no disadvantage either.

 

[Yup]

Originally Posted By: MisterBen
Originally Posted By: Falken
They don't get a bad rep with any car brand.

People just like to try and save a few bucks off going to the dealership.

Others like to find a "better" filter for the same price.

Do you get your oil at the dealership parts counter?

I have, once, and it was for TGMO 0W20 to try out in my Honda!

I chickend out as people have complained that it increases engine noise, sold it to a buddy at school...

I do get ATF and Brake Fluid from the dealer though...

On second thought, my second OCI I used a Honda blue filter which is just a FRAM.

I like Wix filters, so I go with those. I don't want to pay 11-12$ for a Honda OEM filter when I get Wix filters for half that price from a local jobber.

You must be thinking of another website, OEM filters here get a good reputation from what I have read on BITOG anyway.



I usually get the Toyota & Mazda filters for the same price or cheaper than the aftermarket filters. Around here the basic Wix filter is just over $9, which is about the same or higher than the Toyota filters. I think I paid almost $10 for that Tough Guard at Wal Mart. I bought the Toyota filters in a case, not sure what I paid for them, but I think it was only $5-6 a piece (from a local WA dealer).

I did the first OCI with this vehicle at 1500 miles with TGMO, and it was pricey--so only once. I think I paid something ridiculous like $65 OTD or so for 7 quarts of oil. My only defense is I was in a hurry and was new to the 0w20 stuff and people said it was good oil.

I don't specifically mean this board, but I have seen a few posts from people discounting factory filters. I mean in general, I've seen a lot off this board that tends to discredit the factory parts.


Honda and Subaru OEM filters from the dealer about $5 each. FRAM orange cans...not much less in price. M1, Purolator Boss, Wix whatever top is...$10+. I keep asking this question, too. It seems on this site many people think you need a 99.9% at 0.00000000001 micron filter or your car will implode.

 

[Nate1979]

Don't confuse the term factory filter with over the counter OEM filters. They are not always (rarely?) the same.

 

[jongies3]

This is honestly the first time I've heard this. Toyota filters are among the best filters you can buy in the "bargain" category. They are often a bit cheaper than the name brands such as FRAM, WIX, etc..

Questioning the quality of an OEM filter is like saying the manufacturer doesn't know what they're doing. Toyota has a very good reputation for building some of the most reliable, trustworthy cars on the road, and they wouldn't risk it by putting low quality parts in their vehicles! Use their filters with confidence and rest easy.
When it comes to those cartridge filters, I'd rather use OEM than anything else, personally. I've heard too many horror stories of non-OEM filters failing on vehicles like 6.0 and 6.4 International diesels used in Ford trucks.

 

[KD0AXS]

Hyundai/Kia have a great OEM Filter. Build quality is awesome, and they have a silicone ADBV. They cost $5.70 at my local dealership. A Fram orange can PH9688 is $5.67 at Walmart. Sticking with the OEM Filter is an no-brainer.

 

[Balrog006]

I get Honda Genuine Filtech made A01 filters for my fleet at $30-35 for 5, so for $6-7 each they're as economical as any aftermarket brand's base filter and less than the comparable M1 or FU.

Them coupled with a factory air filter and my UOA's for my cars always come back with very low silicon and insoluble counts-gotta be doing something right by using them.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
...Them coupled with a factory air filter and my UOA's for my cars always come back with very low silicon and insoluble counts-gotta be doing something right by using them.

When it comes to insolubles Blackstone has said and it's been posted here, they see no significant differences in standard UOA's no matter the filter used. As for silicon in UOA, as noted that would be most related to AF use and air box seal.

As noted though "factory filters" ie., those installed at the factory, can be different than the OEM/OES filters obtained over the counter for later installation.

I'm not aware that factory filters, or the OEM/OES oil filters have a particularly bad reputation. Some prefer them. The one negative one 'might' note, is that generally speaking their efficiency ratings are unknown, proprietary. The few OEM efficiency data points, especially the Asian OEMs don't show spectacular results. That as compared 'some' of the aftermarkets that publish an efficiency rating, and some of those are quite good. That said, for some efficiency is not a priority.