My upper sidewall pinehole leak fix

[Pokermatters]

I take my General Altimax RT43's to Discount Tire for free rotation/balance. 8 days later and 75 miles from home i notice my back left tire is low on air. I check and it's at 20 psi. I have a cig lighter air pump and pump it to it's usual 34 psi (4 over placard), stop halfway home with zero drop and make it home fine. Next morning, it's back down to 25 psi, so I refill with air and drive it to Discount Tire to have them check it.

They show me a micro pinhole leak right where the edge of the tread meets the upper sidewall and states to me "you probably hit something", to which i reply "on the inside portion of the tire?", to which they retort "probably from a pothole" (sure, pothole, middle of the summer). They offer to prorate the one tire, knowing that I've driven 51,000 miles on them and at that point might potentially buy a whole new set.

I instruct them to put the tire back on, to which he states "be careful, you're more likely to have a blowout". The next day, I put some Goop 2 (essentially shoe goo with UV protection added) onto about an inch by 2/3rd inch oval of cut denim, put it over the hole, feel two bubbles "pop" as I'm pushing the makeshift patch into place, then repeat the process for a 2nd layer. This material cures in 24 to 72 hours and surprisingly, 14 days and 1000 miles later, this patch is still holding with zero air loss. Even if this fix fails, it's still a micro leak underneath and I have the ability to immediately add air at any time, so I"m not especially concerned about a weakened sidewall since I've been vigilant on keeping my tires properly inflated throughout their life.

I'm about 6/32's left on my tires. Most likely I'll buy another set by the end of fall when I can find a good sale.

 

[Doog]

Sorry but repairing a sidewall is really foolish IMO.

 

[Fsharp]

You put this on the outside? I'm surprised it's stayed on so long. You should post a photo of it and let us know when it falls off.

 

[Nick1994]

I personally wouldn't risk it, but I also bought the warranties from Discount Tire for my Altimax RT43s.

I'm jealous of your mileage though, 51k miles and 6/32" of tread is great. Mine were at 8/32" after 14k miles the last time they were checked at DT, approaching 19k now.

 

[Wolf359]

Yeah, this sounds like a penny wise, pound foolish repair. I'd be more worried about a sidewall blowout on the highway, especially in hot weather a la Ford Exploder.

 

[BrocLuno]

You got a thorn or a piece of wire through the sidewall, or you have severe ozone cracking. If you can't see cracking, it was a freak puncture.. I am always amazed at the folks who get nervous about anything related to the sidewall. This sidewall myth stuff is like the Oil Stop tech showing you brown oil and saying you must change it ...

Anyone who has driven off-road any amount knows all about sidewall cuts and such. They leave you stranded. I have 4x4's with stacked pull through plugs that have been on a rim over a year and still run right down the road. The only question is how good is your jack and spare? I have off-road buddies with as many as 8 pull through plugs in side walls and they are still driving them.

As long as it does not cut across radial cords, it is negligible. If it cuts across two or three radial cords, I'll be hesitant to drive it at freeway speeds... But, it would still get the snot run out of it on the farm

In the era I grew up tire failures were common and we all learned how to patch tires. Just have some other shop break the tire off the rim and you put a real patch on the inside, put it back on the rim and drive it until it actually fails, or the tread wears out (my bet)...
Shops won't patch it because of a possible law suite, but you can... Finish that tire off and then buy a matched set of new.

And why are you running 4 psi over door pillar MFG tire inflation? Mileage, or you like a stiff ride...

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Sorry but repairing a sidewall is really foolish IMO.


Repairing it with Shoo Goo is even more foolish.

OP, the guy at Discount Tire is probably correct.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
You got a thorn or a piece of wire through the sidewall, or you have severe ozone cracking. If you can't see cracking, it was a freak puncture.. I am always amazed at the folks who get nervous about anything related to the sidewall. This sidewall myth stuff is like the Oil Stop tech showing you brown oil and saying you must change it ...

Anyone who has driven off-road any amount knows all about sidewall cuts and such. They leave you stranded. I have 4x4's with stacked pull through plugs that have been on a rim over a year and still run right down the road. The only question is how good is your jack and spare? I have off-road buddies with as many as 8 pull through plugs in side walls and they are still driving them.

As long as it does not cut across radial cords, it is negligible. If it cuts across two or three radial cords, I'll be hesitant to drive it at freeway speeds... But, it would still get the snot run out of it on the farm

In the era I grew up tire failures were common and we all learned how to patch tires. Just have some other shop break the tire off the rim and you put a real patch on the inside, put it back on the rim and drive it until it actually fails, or the tread wears out (my bet)...
Shops won't patch it because of a possible law suite, but you can... Finish that tire off and then buy a matched set of new.

And why are you running 4 psi over door pillar MFG tire inflation? Mileage, or you like a stiff ride...


I agree with you 100%. I plug the heck out of my tires, but if putting Shoo Goo on the leak is all I'm capable of doing myself, just get a new tire. Of course Discount Tire isn't going to plug it on the sidewall for obvious reasons, but I'd do it in my driveway tonight.

 

[demarpaint]

I'd replace the tire.

 

[Pokermatters]

Broc....zero ozone cracking on the tire (I drive about 26,000 miles per year, so they're newer tires per the manufacturers code). The puncture is so small I can't even see it, just the resulting soap bubbles when Discount Tire showed me where it was located. I'd hate to accuse anyone of anything, but part of me feels like someone at the shop needled the tire when I had the recent tire rotation done.....I know....Discount Tire people are always ethical and would never do such a thing.

I run 4 over for a variety of reasons.....better gas mileage, better handling, longer lasting tires......and 4 over provides a buffer or margin of error vs. running at the minimum 30 as there will always be times when one loses a pound or two of pressure between top offs.

The pinhole leak isn't going through chords...it's just along the outer edge of the tread on the top of the sidewall so the leak is coming entirely through the sidewall.

Wolf...I believe that your "Ford Exploder" analogy is a complete misapplication to my situation. It's been pretty well established that those tires from Firestone had blowouts primarily because Ford recommended the lowering of tire pressure to 26 psi to counter the fact that the Explorer was prone to rollover.

It's low air pressure and the increased heat that causes damage that ultimately causes blowouts.....I'm of the opinion that a micro pinhole leak adds at most a negligible blowout risk, as long as the tire has proper air pressure.

I'll update in the future if and when the Goop 2/denim two layer external patch job fails.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Pokermatters
I'd hate to accuse anyone of anything, but part of me feels like someone at the shop needled the tire when I had the recent tire rotation done.....I know....Discount Tire people are always ethical and would never do such a thing.


Where's the motivation? If they aren't on commission the workers wouldn't benefit from this, and I'd think it'd be quite hard to achieve an invisible puncture, though I've never tried.

Originally Posted By: Pokermatters

Wolf...I believe that your "Ford Exploder" analogy is a complete misapplication to my situation. It's been pretty well established that those tires from Firestone had blowouts primarily because Ford recommended the lowering of tire pressure to 26 psi to counter the fact that the Explorer was prone to rollover.



That's my understanding, except the last bit. I thought they were prone to rollover because they had blowouts, partly due to the low pressure, which was recommended to reduce ride harshness.


Originally Posted By: Pokermatters
I'll update in the future if and when the Goop 2/denim two layer external patch job fails.


If it fails I hope you'll consider trying it on the inside, which seems much more likely to last. Or maybe try one of the liquid tyre sealants?

 

[CapriRacer]

A couple of thoughts:

1) I have seen all kinds of things puncture tires. Punctures to the tread and punctures to the sidewall. Punctures on the outboard sidewall and in the inboard sidewall. You would think the inboard sidewall would be immune, but that is not the case. It seems that tumbling objects can find a tire's sidewall even under the car!

2) The reason why tire sidewalls are unrepairable is that the motion a tire sidewall goes through is incredibly complex and patches don't stay adhered and plugs don't completely fill the holes as the sidewall deflects - at least not 100% of the time. I would think that a shoe goo repair would eventually leak.

3) The reason why a sidewall repair failing is dangerous has to do with the speed of the vehicle. At high speeds it take a long distance for a vehicle to come to a stop - if the car is sliding sideways, it is much more likely to hit something - HARD!!

Physics lesson! The momentum of an object is the square of the speed. If the stopping distance of a car is X at 30 mph, it is 4X at 60!!

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Pokermatters
Wolf...I believe that your "Ford Exploder" analogy is a complete misapplication to my situation. It's been pretty well established that those tires from Firestone had blowouts primarily because Ford recommended the lowering of tire pressure to 26 psi to counter the fact that the Explorer was prone to rollover.

It's low air pressure and the increased heat that causes damage that ultimately causes blowouts.....I'm of the opinion that a micro pinhole leak adds at most a negligible blowout risk, as long as the tire has proper air pressure.

I'll update in the future if and when the Goop 2/denim two layer external patch job fails.


The firerock tires had a defect and Ford recommended a lower air pressure to improve ride so it was a combination of things. A higher air pressure produces a harsher ride. Rollover is pretty much due to center of gravity, the higher the vehicle, the more likely it is to rollover. In your case you've done your own repair that may or may not give out at any time and lead to a lower air pressure that you won't notice while driving. The ford explorer also had many failures in the hot weather, vehicles were loaded up for summer trips, long highway speeds. The sidewall actually gets the most workout, it's constantly flexing. There's a certain margin of error in everything, your fix just reduces it. The fact that no one will stand behind a sidewall fix should tell you something. Whether you listen or not is Darwin speaking.

 

[George Bynum]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Physics lesson! The momentum of an object is the square of the speed. If the stopping distance of a car is X at 30 mph, it is 4X at 60!!
Check your physics, momentum is mass * velocity. Kinetic energy is a velocity squared relationship.

 

[Pokermatters]

The patch is still fully in place, but after 1,150 miles, no longer holds the air so I'm back to square one....a pinhole leak that I can ride on while keeping properly inflated until I buy a new tire for it. I certainly would never put a plug or plug/patch through this pinhole leak which I realize would ultimately fail as well, but with a far larger hole allowing for a much faster leak.

Wolf...to the "whether you listen or not is Darwin speaking" comment. Taking risks and thinking outside the box is a big part of the Darwinian process of evolution. There will be new and trial processes events that are not successful....and there will be new mutations, processes, etc. that will provide for the furthering of a species. The status quo isn't always the best that "darwanism" has to offer. It struck me as rather presumptuous of you to even make that statement.

 

[SatinSilver]

Since the car doesn't have tpms I've had good luck with older cars by using a can of Fix-a=flat. Pretty cheap as well.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Pokermatters
Wolf...to the "whether you listen or not is Darwin speaking" comment. Taking risks and thinking outside the box is a big part of the Darwinian process of evolution. There will be new and trial processes events that are not successful....and there will be new mutations, processes, etc. that will provide for the furthering of a species. The status quo isn't always the best that "darwanism" has to offer. It struck me as rather presumptuous of you to even make that statement.


Thinking outside the box can lead to good and bad results. The risk you're taking here is trying to save a few bucks, but potentially risking your life and other lives on the highway while you drive on a potentially unsafe tire. Tires are certified to a certain spec, once it's damaged, all bets are off. And ultimately, to what end do you see your experiment? If it's successful and others try it, they may not be as lucky as you. And it's clear you're somewhat pressing your luck. And I'm not exactly sure what you find presumptuous. You can also learn from experience, analyze existing data etc.

And just for the record, I did get a flat in one of my tires, it was in the outer rib, had this same mental internal debate for about 5 minutes about putting a plug in it anyway even though it was against industry recommendations, but in the end, I sucked it up and spent $200+ for one new tire. Sometimes you just have to do it.

 

[ToadU]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Sorry but repairing a sidewall is really foolish IMO.


Agreed. Wow. Just wow. Buy at least 2 new tires. Put the new tires on rear of vehicle. If the tires are nearing the end of their life anyway and you can afford it--and are keeping the car buy a whole new matched set.

IMHO nothing in your vehicle is more conducive to overall safety as tires. Your putting every person in your car at risk and others sharing the road at risk.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: George Bynum
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Physics lesson! The momentum of an object is the square of the speed. If the stopping distance of a car is X at 30 mph, it is 4X at 60!!
Check your physics, momentum is mass * velocity. Kinetic energy is a velocity squared relationship.


I stand corrected.

 

[EdwardC]

Back in the day, I remember my dad fixing more than a couple tires with very slow leaks by using the Slime tire sealant. I would bet that it could plug your small leak. It's probably no good for TPMS equipped tires though. I bet the tire shops hate cleaning that stuff off though.