How to work dealers on price?

[doitmyself]

Lots of good info so far. Over the last three decades I have bought my new vehicles over the phone, only going into the dealer to do the final paper work. It takes a lot of effort and homework, but I'm the type that tries to get the "really good" deal. I have no desire to develop any friendship type relationship with a dealer because my vehicles will never go back there except for warranty work. This might not apply in VERY rural areas. After my homework is done, I tell them what I want to pay and I find the dealer hungry enough to meet my needs.

What can I add? You can go on the Chrysler site, spec. out your vehicle, and then generate a dealer inventory/price list within as big a radius as you desire. This will give you an idea on which dealers are more hungry to move vehicles.

Edmunds used to have insider tips for vehicle purchasing. One point they made is that beyond rebates, etc., some manufacturers have dealer incentives/paybacks not advertised to the public. This enables some dealers to sell some vehicles below their invoice and still make money. This generally doesn't work on popular Asian name tags, IMO. Chrysler has historically had lots of price reduction incentives for their dealers. The old Caravan tooling and development costs are probably taken care of and they are just milking the gravy train as long as they can. You should be able to make a killing on one. At least that's the situation in Michigan. I don't know about Kias.

Good luck to you. Be steadfast. Do not get suckered into extras. Putting in the effort to find a hungry dealer can pay great dividends, IF it is in your nature to save money. And, I imagine regional differences exist, so what works well for me may not work for others.

 

[97prizm]

Also go in with an idea what you want, and please don't ask for a ridiculous cheap deal. I get too many customers who want $60,000 for $300 per month with nothing down. 2016 models will stop being shipped or produced. Most manufacturers will show off 2017 models in August or SSeptember.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I'm one of the strange folks that LIKES negotiating car deals. I negotiate deals for me, the wife, my parents, my wife's parents, other family members, etc, because I always get the best deal.

1) Buy on the last day of the month. Your one sale could mean the difference between the sales manager meeting his monthly sales goal or not meeting that monthly sales goal.

2) The 2017 model cars are coming out now. If you can wait a few months, you can get a much better deal on the 2016 models that they want sold and off their lot.

3) Find the internet sales manager, and negotiate with him/her via email in the comfort of your home. It is much easier and less stressful to negotiate with your computer screen, than a highly trained sales professional that is trained in the art of the deal and physiological clues as to whether they can squeeze you for more money or not.

4) Email EVERY internet sales manager for that car brand within 300-400 miles. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM whatsoever driving 300 miles to pick up a car if it is going to save me $1000. I bet you would to. That's just a nice Saturday drive. Heck, many dealers will even drive the car to you and you can sign the paperwork in your living room.

5) Look at websites such as truecar.com, edmunds.com, and kbb.com and a few others I am probably forgetting. You can get a general idea what invoice pricing is. Just realize that car dealers dont buy a car for "invoice price". There are a LOT of other factors that go into what a car dealer actually pays for the car.

6) NEVER, EVER, and I mean, EVER buy a car based on monthly payment. That is how suckers buy a car. The dealers slide you a piece of paper and ask you to put down what you can afford each month. Slide the paper right back across the table and tell them to stop playing games. ALWAYS buy a car based on total out the door cost, and not monthly payment. This is a test that dealers use to find out how informed/stupid the buyer is. Only IDIOTS buy a car on monthly payment, and the dealers know this. They would be glad to sell you a new $75K BMW at $249 a month. With a 26.9% interest rate. With 360 monthly payments.

7) If the car brand is offering 0%, 0.9%, or 1.9% interest financing, it is probably better to go with the dealership financing. If they are not offering anything like that, then your local credit union will most likely offer batter rates. I personally use my bank as they give me INSTANT access to credit. I just print out a form and bring it with me to the dealer. Takes less than 3 minutes to apply for credit via my bank and I have the form printed out and ready to go in under 10 minutes. So easy a caveman could do it.


I agree with you, I like buying a car... and I like negotiating. My wife hates it. She is ready to leave in 10 minutes if they don't cave immediately. It isn't an act but I use it.

1) I normally buy in the first week of the month. I have a feeling that those in a dealership on the last day(s) are going to buy a car. So manager might try and go for more if they have hit their targets (or are short). Plus other "people" are there. I would rather have a slow "first week" spot where the sobering up folks are thinking "it has been slow" and they do not want to start behind on the numbers.

2) Somewhat. Yeah. Keep in mind that as the 2017 arrive, those 2016 take a double depreciation hit if you care about that. So a 2016 sold in Sept 15 is the same as one sold in Sept 16... only the mileage is affecting the value.

3) Sometimes. Some dealers will throw a dozen folks at you and dodge the "meat" of the negotiation. I got 50+ texts and 10+ calls with one dealer per day. Nothing other than "what are you looking for (again)?. Annoying as heck. Still, some dealers were better and did not play games.

4) Yep, be willing to drive a distance... but I also use this against the local dealership.

5) Yes, use the consumer resources. The whole "cost" of the vehicle is a shell game. You need to watch what the final sales prices are saying to determine what you can offer. It does not matter if the "new" Model Civic is invoiced at $25,000... if the "fanboys" are buying for $28,000, the dealer is not going to cut a deal.

6) Can't say that enough, although I do pay attention to the monthly cost. Folks need to add the total finance charge on top of the purchase price. So a $20,000 car might cost $25,000 with a fair rate + long term loan (over 48 months). So going hard after that $500 extra off is wiped away with a financing charge. I go one further. I create a matrix of the total cost based on rates, rebates, and length of term. So does taking 0%/0.9%/1.9% for 48/60/72 vs taking $500/$1000/$2500 payoff in some scenarios? My most recent purchase suggested that despite 0.9% being available, it was cheaper to go with a $2500+ rebate (still was able to finance a low 1.75% rate with an external bank) over the life of the loan. Especially since I pay about 60-75% of the full-term finance charge by double-paying per month.

7) Dealership financing MIGHT be better... but know the difference between a manufacturer-backed financing and "dealer" financing. The dealer could kick you to a awful bank and not use "Hyundai Financial" or Subaru (Chase)... they may give you Loan-Sharks Anonymous Inc. I will only go through a manufacturer finance/manufacturer-backed bank or my bank/credit union of choice. Read the documents. Negotiation does not stop after you agree on the price in the lobby.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
7) Dealership financing MIGHT be better... but know the difference between a manufacturer-backed financing and "dealer" financing. The dealer could kick you to a awful bank and not use "Hyundai Financial" or Subaru (Chase)... they may give you Loan-Sharks Anonymous Inc. I will only go through a manufacturer finance/manufacturer-backed bank or my bank/credit union of choice.


Yes, I found that one out. First the loan was through a somewhat-local bank. Then it was flipped to some place which wouldn't do payment via credit card--had to do some sort of money transfer. And the password for their website would require changing every 90 days--but once the password was changed, it would take a day before the new password would be accepted--and of course, when it wanted the password changed, it wanted it changed right and then. The finance charges didn't line up either.

 

[K20FA5]

Use Truecar and KBB. Know what a fair price is when you go in the door. Call around and look on the dealer websites before you ever go in. Know the exact car you want, know what you should be paying for it, then go and drive it.

The dealer add on stuff is always negotiable! We didn't pay for any of it on our new 4Runner that we just bought. Gulf States Toyota loads them up with extras too.

The main thing is go in knowing what you want to pay and knowing the car you want. Talk to your bank before as well. Get an interest rate from them, then let the finance department work with that rate and let them beat it. If not, finance it on your own through your own bank.

Like they said above, be ready to walk away. If they want to deal, they will call you back!

 

[HM12460]

2 things that have served me well:

A) Be prepared to walk away without hesitation or apologizing.
B) Never forget that YOU are in the drivers seat here, NOT the salesman.

 

[funflyer]

I am a firm believer in the email process also. Started with a little research to find out the MSRP along with fair purchase price and what others were paying for the same car. I sent an email to every dealer within 150 miles, let them know I didn't want to play any games and I was serious about giving my business to the one with the lowest OTD price and would be down the next day to purchase the car. Within four hours I had the lowest OTD price, just below MSRP, along with some crazy [censored] prices from dealers who didn't take me serious (more than 2k higher). I called the guy with the lowest price and made sure he was serious by taking a down payment over the phone with a CC which he did, then asked if he could start the paperwork before we arrived in the morning because I wanted to be in and out quickly. The next morning we went down to purchase the car and were driving it home in under two hours but it would have been sooner if the finance guy hadn't played his games which didn't work. We left paying the exact OTD amount that the internet sales manager quoted us and not a penny more.

 

[spiderbypass]

I think one of the most important things is to test drive as many cars as you can and identify the specific vehicle you want to buy-then aggressively seek the best price from multiple sources. Also get approved from a credit union and have your own financing so you can negotiate that if needed when making the purchase. I have had the best success for getting the best price when had very specific car in mind that I wanted like when bought civic hybrid, svt contour, and when absolutely wanted a stick shift Honda Accord. Had worst experiences when was looking for a general car like a four door sedan or practical car for long commute. Really soul search and identify car you will love and the haggling will be easier; with the exception of looking for a totally unique car where you will have to pay too much anyway.

 

[Huie83]

Originally Posted By: spiderbypass
I think one of the most important things is to test drive as many cars as you can and identify the specific vehicle you want to buy-then aggressively seek the best price from multiple sources. Also get approved from a credit union and have your own financing so you can negotiate that if needed when making the purchase. I have had the best success for getting the best price when had very specific car in mind that I wanted like when bought civic hybrid, svt contour, and when absolutely wanted a stick shift Honda Accord. Had worst experiences when was looking for a general car like a four door sedan or practical car for long commute. Really soul search and identify car you will love and the haggling will be easier; with the exception of looking for a totally unique car where you will have to pay too much anyway.


This is a great point. The wife and I sat down before we went shopping and talked about what our needs vs wants are. Pretty much all the base model vans meet our needs besides the Grand Caravan AVP. We're just looking for a basic van, only requirement is the basics plus roll down sliding door windows.

So far cross shopping the brands our contenders are:

Dodge Grand caravan SE Plus: ~$21.5K
Kia Sedona L: ~$21K Toyota Sienna L: ~$25K

It is such a hard decision. Although the Toyota is a little more expensive i'm thinking that's the better long term buy. We plan on keeping the van for 15 years but if we do get tired of it in 6-7 years, it would be nice to have something that keeps its value. I'm not sure the money saved going with Kia or Dodge is worth it. Kia also has direct injection which i'm not sure would be good long term. Same with the Dodge, not sure how it would hold up over 15 years.

Thoughts?

 

[Scum_Frog]

http://www.unhaggle.com/

 

[Huie83]

Thanks Scum_Frog. The site looks useful but is currently broken, won't take any zip codes.

 

[WylieCoyote]

One of the most valuable car shopping tools is one I stumbled across somewhat by accident. I'm highly organized by nature and printed out complete spec sheets with pictures of each car I wanted to go see that day. I carried that folder into the first dealership with me. After discussing the first car with the sales guy, I said I had some more I needed to look at and he asked to see them. After thumbing through the pages, he asked what he could do to get my business today. The haggling began, and I drove out with the first car I looked at. Smoking deal on a CPO 2012 Fusion V6 SEL.

Your willingness to walk away, combined with freely advertising that you're shopping other brands can really help. Some dealerships are under the impression that the customer should be the one that scrambles to buy a car. Remember, it's them that should be scrambling to sell you one. Pitting dealerships against each other is my favorite sport, especially on identical cars.

 

[Huie83]

Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
One of the most valuable car shopping tools is one I stumbled across somewhat by accident. I'm highly organized by nature and printed out complete spec sheets with pictures of each car I wanted to go see that day. I carried that folder into the first dealership with me. After discussing the first car with the sales guy, I said I had some more I needed to look at and he asked to see them. After thumbing through the pages, he asked what he could do to get my business today. The haggling began, and I drove out with the first car I looked at. Smoking deal on a CPO 2012 Fusion V6 SEL.

Your willingness to walk away, combined with freely advertising that you're shopping other brands can really help. Some dealerships are under the impression that the customer should be the one that scrambles to buy a car. Remember, it's them that should be scrambling to sell you one. Pitting dealerships against each other is my favorite sport, especially on identical cars.


That's funny, we did the same when we went and test drove the Kia and Dodge. The owner of the dealership actually came over and asked what he could do to make a deal today. I politely explained that we are just cross shopping brands currently. They've been calling every day asking what they can do to make a deal.

I think i'll try the same with the Toyota to see how they respond. It's actually pretty fun to see how they respond when they figure out you are a informed customer. I think many consumers, especially at the Kia dealership, are just excited to get into a car.

Is it better to tell a sales guy "we're just looking today" when you start test driving or does it not matter? The sales guy at Dodge/Kia while polite, seemed a bit peeved after spending a few hours with us and we just asked for a card and left telling him again, "we're just cross shopping brands"

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Huie83

So far cross shopping the brands our contenders are:

Dodge Grand caravan SE Plus: ~$21.5K
Kia Sedona L: ~$21K Toyota Sienna L: ~$25K

It is such a hard decision. Although the Toyota is a little more expensive i'm thinking that's the better long term buy. We plan on keeping the van for 15 years but if we do get tired of it in 6-7 years, it would be nice to have something that keeps its value. I'm not sure the money saved going with Kia or Dodge is worth it. Kia also has direct injection which i'm not sure would be good long term. Same with the Dodge, not sure how it would hold up over 15 years.

Thoughts?


You call that cross-shopping?

Before I purchased the 2er I considered the following:

Boss 302
Camaro SS 1LE
Cayman S
Challenger SRT8
Elise
Golf R
GTI
Fiesta ST
Focus RS
Miata Club
M3(E46)
Mustang GT Perf Pkg.
WRX STI
135is
335is
370Z NISMO

 

[MNgopher]

I was up front with the sales folks I worked with early - made sure they knew that I would not be buying that day. However, I also made it so it wasn't a big loss of their time - mid day on a rainy Monday early in the month. Lets just say sales folks were generally looking for something to do...

Nobody complained!

 

[Huie83]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Huie83

So far cross shopping the brands our contenders are:

Dodge Grand caravan SE Plus: ~$21.5K
Kia Sedona L: ~$21K Toyota Sienna L: ~$25K

It is such a hard decision. Although the Toyota is a little more expensive i'm thinking that's the better long term buy. We plan on keeping the van for 15 years but if we do get tired of it in 6-7 years, it would be nice to have something that keeps its value. I'm not sure the money saved going with Kia or Dodge is worth it. Kia also has direct injection which i'm not sure would be good long term. Same with the Dodge, not sure how it would hold up over 15 years.

Thoughts?


You call that cross-shopping?

Before I purchased the 2er I considered the following:

Boss 302
Camaro SS 1LE
Cayman S
Challenger SRT8
Elise
Golf R
GTI
Fiesta ST
Focus RS
Miata Club
M3(E46)
Mustang GT Perf Pkg.
WRX STI
135is
335is
370Z NISMO


Ha! Wish I had that many minivan options. There are really only 4 to choose from, 2 easily in my budget and 1 that is on the upper end.

I'm going to shop used also, but from what I am seeing, most 2013-2015 minivans are prior rentals with no service records.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Huie83


Ha! Wish I had that many minivan options. There are really only 4 to choose from, 2 easily in my budget and 1 that is on the upper end.

I'm going to shop used also, but from what I am seeing, most 2013-2015 minivans are prior rentals with no service records.


That is a problem; the majority of the cars I considered-as well as the car I bought-were CPO cars.

 

[Huie83]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Huie83


Ha! Wish I had that many minivan options. There are really only 4 to choose from, 2 easily in my budget and 1 that is on the upper end.

I'm going to shop used also, but from what I am seeing, most 2013-2015 minivans are prior rentals with no service records.


That is a problem; the majority of the cars I considered-as well as the car I bought-were CPO cars.


That brings up yet another question. Since 99% of the 2014-2015 Toyota Sienna vans out there are prior rentals, is it worth buying a prior rental to save $6-7K off a new one? Most I am finding have around 11K miles with one record of a oil change at 11K when they were brought in and inspected for sale. That doesn't mean they didn't have a change before that, just not on record. One I found had a 5K change and a 11K change. All are the LE trim and are priced at $25,700. Since they are prior rentals does that give me more bargaining power?

I have read the good and the bad on prior rentals. Opinions?

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: Huie83
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Huie83


Ha! Wish I had that many minivan options. There are really only 4 to choose from, 2 easily in my budget and 1 that is on the upper end.

I'm going to shop used also, but from what I am seeing, most 2013-2015 minivans are prior rentals with no service records.


That is a problem; the majority of the cars I considered-as well as the car I bought-were CPO cars.


That brings up yet another question. Since 99% of the 2014-2015 Toyota Sienna vans out there are prior rentals, is it worth buying a prior rental to save $6-7K off a new one? Most I am finding have around 11K miles with one record of a oil change at 11K when they were brought in and inspected for sale. That doesn't mean they didn't have a change before that, just not on record. One I found had a 5K change and a 11K change. All are the LE trim and are priced at $25,700. Since they are prior rentals does that give me more bargaining power?

I have read the good and the bad on prior rentals. Opinions?


Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
If you want to save money get a Grand Caravan that is about 2 years old. We picked ours up with a huge relative discount versus new. I personally wouldnt justify 23k, but we were sold at 18k for a fully loaded R/T.

 

[spiderbypass]

One rule of thumb I go by wrong or right is purchasing a Japanese Model new and an American or Korean model pre owned. This is for vehicles under $30000 or so. Hondas and Toyotas tend to keep their value and auto dealers make a lot of their profit off of pre owned sales. If you prefer the Toyota Sienna I would haggle hard for new one. If you like the caravan or Kia Model then I would look to purchase one two years old as the gentleman did with the RT version of the Caravan.