Motor Trend Visit with Valvoline

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Turbo direct-injected engines operate at higher temperatures that can oxidize particles of soot that get into the oil and absorb the additives that prevent wear. Valvoline researchers are finding that replacing calcium-based detergent additives with magnesium-based compounds can prolong oil life in such engines.


Very interesting!

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This an advertisement? All oil is good. My granddad told me just stick with one and keep running it. You start mixing it up, the subtle differences will catch up with you. I use Quick Lane and I have heard mixed stories on who actually makes Motorcraft. I have heard Valvoline or Havoline. Either way, I can run 7000 to 7500 miles on synthetic right before it really turns dark brown to black. It may be fine, but with the extra heat and stress the turbos can out on an engine; I want to last. I am not stretching to 10k as advertise by Ford. That very well maybe, but I am guessing the N/A V6 and the 5.0 if you don't do much. I 've already put 27K on it in a year and I have moved, hauled, towed and been on 700 mile round trips in adverse weather and it runs smooth like new.


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Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Quote:
Turbo direct-injected engines operate at higher temperatures that can oxidize particles of soot that get into the oil and absorb the additives that prevent wear. Valvoline researchers are finding that replacing calcium-based detergent additives with magnesium-based compounds can prolong oil life in such engines.


Very interesting!


Valvoline isn't the only one and probably wasn't even the first to notice that. This is why Mobil 1 switched to a combo of Ca + Mg additive pack a few years ago and GF6 oils will probably all have to use a similar add pack.
 
Valvoline tech VP Thom Smith’s group is working on novel ways to deliver wear-protection elements that release over time, using the same or less ZDDP to extend the life of other components in the oil without stressing the catalytic converter.


This should be good news for zddp obsessed classic car owners like me
 
In the past, I was a very big fan of overbased magnesium detergents. For a given TBN, you get lower ash level. It's also generally easier to manufacture a 400 TBN Mg detergent than a Ca one which can mean that Mg works out cheaper on an overall formulation basis.

But all this stuff about Mg being better than Ca on GDI engines and having less impact on low speed knock, no I just don't buy it. Somethings getting confused with something else.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
In the past, I was a very big fan of overbased magnesium detergents. For a given TBN, you get lower ash level. It's also generally easier to manufacture a 400 TBN Mg detergent than a Ca one which can mean that Mg works out cheaper on an overall formulation basis.

But all this stuff about Mg being better than Ca on GDI engines and having less impact on low speed knock, no I just don't buy it. Somethings getting confused with something else.


http://image.slidesharecdn.com/aftonchem...g?cb=1420348476

http://fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/lspi-a-knock-on-the-newest-engines/

There have been multiple studies done.
 
Is this technical as technical or technical driving a differentiated marketing opportunity?

You have to be so careful about what you believe these days...
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Is this technical as technical or technical driving a differentiated marketing opportunity?

You have to be so careful about what you believe these days...


http://papers.sae.org/2014-01-2785/
http://papers.sae.org/2014-32-0092/

2 separate studies showing that Ca increases LSPI and neither related to Valvoline. If it was a marketing opportunity, Mobil 1 would be all over it right now because most of their oils have Mg additives and there is no mention of it anywhere.
 
You dont have to "buy it" Joe90, but it is true. How widespread is the other question. And do you want to risk it in your T-GDi. My 2.0T hasn't missed a beat when using Quaker State but I'd rather not continue the beta test and just use lower Ca oils from here on out.

Even the high Ca user SOPUS has admitted as much but tempered their warning by suggesting it's only an issue in prototype engines. Not true as there's been a few (known) market released examples where LSPI has been the cause of breakdowns and failures. Chevron Ornite has also moved away from high Ca formulations as evidenced in the most current PQIA test samples.


Chevron Ornite
https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
The Role of the Lubricant in LSPI
"Many factors have been demonstrated to impact LSPI, including: engine designs, fuel composition, and lubricant composition. On the lubricant side, the most noticeable impact has been from the detergent chemistry. Oils with higher concentrations of calcium, which is found in many detergent systems, have been shown to increase the frequency of LSPI."


Pennzoil
Pennzoil's Q & A, the topic came up again and they have answered it this way. Remember, SOPUS oils are rather laden with CaSa...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3836844/Pennzoil_Answers-Complete_Prot

Q: Could you address operators of GDI-Turbo vehicles regarding the effects of certain additives such as calcium and their impact on LSPI (low speed pre-ignition)? There's much discussion and concern by operators of these vehicles that Pennzoil's additive packages are predisposed to LSPI as compared to other brands.

A: Low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) is more a phenomenon of engine design – and as you mentioned, occurs more frequently in gasoline direct injection (GDI) turbocharged engines. It is really a phenomenon for prototype or experimental engines that are still in the Research & Development phase, and oils with high levels of calcium-based detergents can increase LSPI frequency. HOWEVER, by the time the engine is fully designed and released to the market, it must be compatible with the available motor oils in the marketplace. Thus said, there is no need for concern.
 
The Ca issue seems to come up over and over as does NOACK. SynPower is very low and on the list and I did not see NOACK on M1. Half my rides are GDI - so if I switch to SynPower - some can call that good marketing on their part - or I could just assume they support this research and go buy some. In my mind, it's always been in the top ten "easy to gets"
 
I have a low compression, large piston 4 cyl that I found require a bit of premium mix in to prevent pre-ignition at low rpm med load operation (1200-1500 rpm in CVT "overdrive", road speed approx. 35-45mph)

I could imagine if you now add 13:1 + compression and "lugging" program the ECU to promote fuel economy makes a recipe for preignition; certainly if you don't have a good pseudo-prechamber design in the cyl head and/or stratified charge scenario using multiple timed pulse direct injection.

Maybe they went too far with the high static comp and superheated charge.
We are still beta on DI.
 
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Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Valvoline isn't the only one and probably wasn't even the first to notice that. This is why Mobil 1 switched to a combo of Ca + Mg additive pack a few years ago and GF6 oils will probably all have to use a similar add pack.



If it were that easy, than Mobil 1 would have switched their high Ca, no magnesium 0w-40 formulation to match their lower viscosity oils. And they haven't. The 0w-40 meets numerous high end manufacturer specs, is used by well known racing teams, etc.
 
I'm treating calcium causing low speed knock like the 1950's 'Bomber Gap' and Iraqi WMD. It is absolutely, irrefutable fact until such time as it becomes self-evident that it never was in the first place.
 
The way to get around this is to go 2-stroke DI like Tohatsu (TLDI) and Evinrude (E-Tec) outboards. They are currently getting better fuel mileage and lower emissions than most 4-stroke outboards, with better low end TQ, hole shots, time to plane, etc.
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The day of the 2-stroke automotive engine may be coming back - re-Saab anyone ...
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Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Motor Trend
I've been getting MT for forty years and used to like the technical articles. Not anymore. There is absolutely nothing in MT that I can relate to today and I'm not renewing my subscription. Not even for $12.00 a year.Times change.
 
A lot of talking about Calcium. But adding Calcium only is useless. It needs Vitamin D to work properly.

OK, my break time is over. Back to work. bye.
 
How much ad space has and will Valvoline be buying in the mag?
Motor Trend used to be taken seriously, but that was back in the seventies.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I have a low compression, large piston 4 cyl that I found require a bit of premium mix in to prevent pre-ignition at low rpm med load operation (1200-1500 rpm in CVT "overdrive", road speed approx. 35-45mph)

I could imagine if you now add 13:1 + compression and "lugging" program the ECU to promote fuel economy makes a recipe for preignition; certainly if you don't have a good pseudo-prechamber design in the cyl head and/or stratified charge scenario using multiple timed pulse direct injection.

Maybe they went too far with the high static comp and superheated charge.
We are still beta on DI.


I assume you mean the Rogue since you mentioned the CVT. The Rogue 2.5L has a 3.5" bore and 9.6:1 compression, the Subaru 2.5L has a 3.7" bore and a 10:1 compression ratio. Neither has particularly low compression or large bores
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In fact the Nissan has smaller bores than the Modular (3.55") and higher compression (9.4:1).
 
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