I knew there'd be a hiccup.... RamPinion Seal Leak

[SumpChump]

After sitting for three years of my father's parapalegia....

His 2005 Dodge Ram Daytona has sprung a small leak / weep from the rear pumpkin pinion seal (i think it is called)

Not a huge deal.... Well maybe it is? No odd noises. It leaks about a small 2 inch round spot made of maybe guessing 10drops?) Any way it seems to take overnight to form the spot on the garage floor. Seems to be after she is run some distance which warms the fluid.

It cant be "watched" , probably hours per drip to form.

The fix seems extensive includimg a need to be very careful with the "preload" on a bearing nut in the nose of the pumpkin which is found once the drive shaft is removed. Vibration potential abound with job done wrong.

I dont know if it is "low on fluid" ... Heck it still has some to drip LOl.

But I thought to maybe "keep it topped up" but it requires a special slip additive also.

Ideas!?!?

 

[cptbarkey]

idea: fix it. good luck.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
idea: fix it. good luck.


"A poetic man he is.", says Mrs. barkey.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
After sitting for three years of my father's parapalegia....

His 2005 Dodge Ram Daytona has sprung a small leak / weep from the rear pumpkin pinion seal (i think it is called)

Not a huge deal.... Well maybe it is? No odd noises. It leaks about a small 2 inch round spot made of maybe guessing 10drops?) Any way it seems to take overnight to form the spot on the garage floor. Seems to be after she is run some distance which warms the fluid.

It cant be "watched" , probably hours per drip to form.

The fix seems extensive includimg a need to be very careful with the "preload" on a bearing nut in the nose of the pumpkin which is found once the drive shaft is removed. Vibration potential abound with job done wrong.

I dont know if it is "low on fluid" ... Heck it still has some to drip LOl.

But I thought to maybe "keep it topped up" but it requires a special slip additive also.

Ideas!?!?


Pinion seals are pretty invasive work, you have to re-set the preload on rear ends equipped with a crush sleeve (like yours is if its a Chrysler 9.25). It also requires a mongo torque wrench and 4-foot yoke holding tool to apply the 210 ft-lb of torque to the pinion nut to fully crush the sleeve (a buddy just did this on his '94 Ram). You also know you're done by measuring the INCH-POUNDS of force required to rotate the pinion freely as you tighten the nut in increments. I would "keep an eye on it" myself. My '69 R/T leaks at the pinion seal, enough to put a dime-sized spot on the floor after a night or two. But it takes the better part of a year to get low enough on fluid to actually add any. Of course I have an 8-3/4 in it, so I can just change center sections in an afternoon if I really had to (love 8-3/4 and Ford 9" type axles.)

Top it up, make sure the overnight spot doesn't start getting bigger, and then check it every 6 months. If you use a gear lube that's limited-slip ready, there's no need for the additive unless it starts "chattering" around corners (which it probably will not since its broken in well by now). The chattering is not damaging, and will stop once you add LS additive. But again, its a very unlikely scenario.

Another reason I say "wait" is that if you keep the truck long enough, it will probably develop the usual 9-1/4 rear end pinion bearing growl. They're sorta known for it- do the seal when you do the bearing. It may be that the leak is due to the first stages of pinion bearing deterioration- you'll know if it is because it will start getting noisy in 10-12k miles. But then you KNOW to do both the seal and the bearing- right now you'd be tempted to do the seal and you might just wind up going back in and doing it all over again.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum


Another reason I say "wait" is that if you keep the truck long enough, it will probably develop the usual 9-1/4 rear end pinion bearing growl. They're sorta known for it- do the seal when you do the bearing. It may be that the leak is due to the first stages of pinion bearing deterioration- you'll know if it is because it will start getting noisy in 10-12k miles. But then you KNOW to do both the seal and the bearing- right now you'd be tempted to do the seal and you might just wind up going back in and doing it all over again.


So here's what I'm catching from ya:
1: simply watch it for status change
2: consider topping up through the rubber plug with limited slip ready fluid
3: Listen for a potential forthcoming bearing growl from the pumpkin


Extra info for you.... In case it give you a glimpse into the likelyhood of bearing problem being pre-signaled by the leak....
It has 99k miles, city truck 60year old driven highway miles, never pulled anything with the hitch.

Onto the questions:
Would I really hear the growl? And when I hear it is it time to pretty mucj take her off the road altogether until repaired due to potential damage by bearing pieces flying in pumpkin. In other words ... How quickly to pull off road if a growl hits my ears.

Somewhat related, since you are knowledgable.

Can a dealer even handle this "correctly" if the time comes. Can a typical (totally stereotyping here) Ozzy 22 year old head banger follow all of the procedures or is it likely to be half arsed. Do you reccomend a mopar specific third party shop if the day comes?

 

[Trav]

You are not setting up a new diff just replacing the pinion seal, no need to be concerned about pre-load the shims and crush collar are already correct in the unit.
Mark the stub and drive shaft and remove the drive shaft, apply the e brake or have someone hold the foot brake, mark the nut and remove it counting the turns. Replace the seal, check the stub for scores, nicks, grooves, reinstall and put the nut right back where it was and your done.
Realistically you can impact the nut off and back on and still be fine, you wont change the pre-load.

 

[turtlevette]

Or add stop leak.

 

[VNTS]

or bring it to the dealer for free fix, believe they have a recall on those 2005 1500's
They didnt get the preload correct. My freind has two 2005 Rams he bought used and he rebuilt both rear ends
on Chryslers dime, he is a tech at local store.

He has scene some come in with the rear end locked up.

I think it is p77 recall.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/busines...lures/20629323/

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum


Another reason I say "wait" is that if you keep the truck long enough, it will probably develop the usual 9-1/4 rear end pinion bearing growl. They're sorta known for it- do the seal when you do the bearing. It may be that the leak is due to the first stages of pinion bearing deterioration- you'll know if it is because it will start getting noisy in 10-12k miles. But then you KNOW to do both the seal and the bearing- right now you'd be tempted to do the seal and you might just wind up going back in and doing it all over again.


So here's what I'm catching from ya:
1: simply watch it for status change
2: consider topping up through the rubber plug with limited slip ready fluid
3: Listen for a potential forthcoming bearing growl from the pumpkin


Extra info for you.... In case it give you a glimpse into the likelyhood of bearing problem being pre-signaled by the leak....
It has 99k miles, city truck 60year old driven highway miles, never pulled anything with the hitch.

Onto the questions:
Would I really hear the growl? And when I hear it is it time to pretty mucj take her off the road altogether until repaired due to potential damage by bearing pieces flying in pumpkin. In other words ... How quickly to pull off road if a growl hits my ears.

Somewhat related, since you are knowledgable.

Can a dealer even handle this "correctly" if the time comes. Can a typical (totally stereotyping here) Ozzy 22 year old head banger follow all of the procedures or is it likely to be half arsed. Do you reccomend a mopar specific third party shop if the day comes?


Sorry for the delayed reply- been out of town in the real world for a week

The growl tends to come on slowly from friends who have experienced it. The one who just rebuilt his own drove it around for several *years* (keeping it in town, but commuting to work), and when he got it open the bearing was definitely galled up, but not yet getting hot or threatening to seize. I'm not saying it *couldn't* lock up 5 minutes after starting to make noise, but the stories I hear are that they typically don't.

Dealers should be able to handle it correctly. They'd probably put their better tech on a rear-end rebuild, or else R&R the whole thing with a new one (don't know if they do that or not).

VNTS mentioned a recall: I TOTALLY forgot that since I don't have friends with trucks in that year range. Definitely check and see if you're covered. I think it was the 1500 with the 9-1/4 that were affected, plus that one definitely does go from fine-to-failed in a big hurry. The pinion preload is wrong, so it pretty much comes apart when things start to go bad. In your case, I'd actually hope to "need" that recall!