need help choosing small concealed carry pistol
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Tiny revolvers are more reliable than tiny autos. I have large hands making the problem even worst. Five for sure. Being able to fire from the pocket is another potential advantage.
True
Tiny revolvers are more reliable than tiny autos. I have large hands making the problem even worst. Five for sure. Being able to fire from the pocket is another potential advantage.
True
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
No holster - no nothing. Slip it in your right-front pocket - never add anything to that pocket and off-you-go.
Absolute non-sense!! A holster is $13. Don't be a fool, wrap up your tool.
No holster - no nothing. Slip it in your right-front pocket - never add anything to that pocket and off-you-go.
Absolute non-sense!! A holster is $13. Don't be a fool, wrap up your tool.
I live in Florida. I too, hate the heat. I am a bigger guy. I have tried waistband carry, but it absolutely does not work with my body style, cargo shorts, and a thin t-shirt.
I pocket carry every single day and can highly recommend the following:
Ruger LCP - reliable, cheap, fits in every pocket you own
Smith & Wesson hammerless airweight j-frame (model 442, 642, or 340) - reliable, powerful, fits in every pocket I own. My most carried gun. Absolutely love it.
Glock 42- best pocket .380 on the market. Quality, reliable, fits in every pocket I own no problem
Glock 43 - Great gun, reliable, powerful, fits in most of my pockets
Glock 26 - high capacity, carry spare 15 round mags. Fits in 40% of my pockets. My going to the mall/movie gun (higher capacity, reliable, powerful)
NAA Mini revolver .22 Magnum - these things are just too cool. Extremely small. I use these as backup weapons. Excellent quality. Great for what they are.
I pocket carry every single day and can highly recommend the following:
Ruger LCP - reliable, cheap, fits in every pocket you own
Smith & Wesson hammerless airweight j-frame (model 442, 642, or 340) - reliable, powerful, fits in every pocket I own. My most carried gun. Absolutely love it.
Glock 42- best pocket .380 on the market. Quality, reliable, fits in every pocket I own no problem
Glock 43 - Great gun, reliable, powerful, fits in most of my pockets
Glock 26 - high capacity, carry spare 15 round mags. Fits in 40% of my pockets. My going to the mall/movie gun (higher capacity, reliable, powerful)
NAA Mini revolver .22 Magnum - these things are just too cool. Extremely small. I use these as backup weapons. Excellent quality. Great for what they are.
My EDC is a Kahr PM9. I've found that it works perfectly for pocket carry in any climate and even worked well in swim shorts while I was on vacation in Kiawah, SC (temps. were in the high 90s and humid) earlier this month at the beach house. I have more than 3,000+ rounds through it and it runs like a Glock. I bought it back in 2007.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Pocket carry with no holster is just bad advice. Do what you want but please don't tell others it's OK. Search "pocket carry no holster" and see what you get. Nobody at any level anywhere in the firearms world advocates it except the individuals who insist it's perfectly safe. This is one of those things that despite the evidence and logic people insist on doing it.
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Pocket carry with no holster is just bad advice. Do what you want but please don't tell others it's OK. Search "pocket carry no holster" and see what you get. Nobody at any level anywhere in the firearms world advocates it except the individuals who insist it's perfectly safe. This is one of those things that despite the evidence and logic people insist on doing it.
Agree. Pocket carry is not a smart way to carry a handgun.
Pocket carry with no holster is just bad advice. Do what you want but please don't tell others it's OK. Search "pocket carry no holster" and see what you get. Nobody at any level anywhere in the firearms world advocates it except the individuals who insist it's perfectly safe. This is one of those things that despite the evidence and logic people insist on doing it.
Agree. Pocket carry is not a smart way to carry a handgun.
Pocket carry is fine IMO, pocket carry or any kind of carry without a holster is just plain asking for trouble.
A proper pocket carry holster does virtually nothing to add to size/concealability (some actually help conceal) but is a quantum leap forward in safety.
From some of the posts here I can only surmise some people's pockets are a heck of a lot bigger than mine!
A proper pocket carry holster does virtually nothing to add to size/concealability (some actually help conceal) but is a quantum leap forward in safety.
From some of the posts here I can only surmise some people's pockets are a heck of a lot bigger than mine!
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Pocket carry is fine IMO, pocket carry or any kind of carry without a holster is just plain asking for trouble.
A proper pocket carry holster does virtually nothing to add to size/concealability (some actually help conceal) but is a quantum leap forward in safety.
From some of the posts here I can only surmise some people's pockets are a heck of a lot bigger than mine!
I think it'd be practically impossible to accidentally fire a stock 642 loose in a pocket. Trigger is just too heavy. Still better with a holster that keeps the gun in one position. I wouldn't think of carrying an auto with much shorter and lighter tripper pull without a holster.
Pocket carry is fine IMO, pocket carry or any kind of carry without a holster is just plain asking for trouble.
A proper pocket carry holster does virtually nothing to add to size/concealability (some actually help conceal) but is a quantum leap forward in safety.
From some of the posts here I can only surmise some people's pockets are a heck of a lot bigger than mine!
I think it'd be practically impossible to accidentally fire a stock 642 loose in a pocket. Trigger is just too heavy. Still better with a holster that keeps the gun in one position. I wouldn't think of carrying an auto with much shorter and lighter tripper pull without a holster.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Pocket carry is not a smart way to carry a handgun.
On a pocket carried firearm, you can have your hand on your gun as someone approaches you and they will have no idea. Can draw and fire in less than half a second. A regular draw on a holstered firearm takes 1.5 seconds.
In a coat pocket in the winter, you can be pointing a snub nose revolver at the person and they have no idea. You can fire through the coat pocket, all 5 rounds, and the gun wont jam.
There is nothing wrong with "proper" pocket carry.
Pocket carry is not a smart way to carry a handgun.
On a pocket carried firearm, you can have your hand on your gun as someone approaches you and they will have no idea. Can draw and fire in less than half a second. A regular draw on a holstered firearm takes 1.5 seconds.
In a coat pocket in the winter, you can be pointing a snub nose revolver at the person and they have no idea. You can fire through the coat pocket, all 5 rounds, and the gun wont jam.
There is nothing wrong with "proper" pocket carry.
Originally Posted By: totegoat
Be careful, there is a reason its called the eunuch carry.
I think you're getting "pocket carry" mixed up with "appendix carry", where the gun is at approximately 1:00 for righties or 11:00 for lefties and rides inside the belt and generally pointed at one's groin area, especially when seated. Pocket carry keeps the gun in one's front pocket, and actually has the muzzle parallel to your thigh when seated, potentially muzzling the person sitting across from you.
I pocket carry a Kel-tec P-32 all the time. I never do it without a holster. I believe carrying without a holster akin to "poor professionalism". Too many negligent discharges are traced back to holster-less carry, and they always end up portraying concealed carry as something that's careless and irresponsible.
In every case I've seen, discharges happen during transitions between sitting and standing. Pocket material can get bunched up with the trigger.
http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/24058379/man-discharges-gun-in-flowood-church
http://www.wtae.com/news/gun-goes-off-in-altoona-church-during-mass/32202174
There's just no reason to introduce that unnecessary risk.
Be careful, there is a reason its called the eunuch carry.
I think you're getting "pocket carry" mixed up with "appendix carry", where the gun is at approximately 1:00 for righties or 11:00 for lefties and rides inside the belt and generally pointed at one's groin area, especially when seated. Pocket carry keeps the gun in one's front pocket, and actually has the muzzle parallel to your thigh when seated, potentially muzzling the person sitting across from you.
I pocket carry a Kel-tec P-32 all the time. I never do it without a holster. I believe carrying without a holster akin to "poor professionalism". Too many negligent discharges are traced back to holster-less carry, and they always end up portraying concealed carry as something that's careless and irresponsible.
In every case I've seen, discharges happen during transitions between sitting and standing. Pocket material can get bunched up with the trigger.
http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/24058379/man-discharges-gun-in-flowood-church
http://www.wtae.com/news/gun-goes-off-in-altoona-church-during-mass/32202174
There's just no reason to introduce that unnecessary risk.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
totegoat said:
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Just curious, you're OK with your KT pointed at the person across from you since it's in a holster?
No; I won't muzzle anyone with an unloaded weapon, and I sure won't do it with a loaded one, holster or otherwise. That's the reason I brought it up! I was drawing (ha!) a distinction between appendix carry (where you're muzzling yourself) and pocket carry (where you are potentially muzzling others...if you're not paying attention). I pocket carry often, but not exclusively. About the only time I don't pocket carry in a pants pocket is at church, where I would indeed be muzzling someone else. If I carry my Kel-tec to church, it's in my left breast pocket of my suit coat. The muzzle is generally pointed toward my side, but I guess a bullet could graze my gut or leg if I don't draw appropriately. The same can be said of holster carry, though, and it's indeed happened (and on video, on YouTube!).
If I carry my Shield to church, it's in an OWB holster at about 3:00.
Every now and again, I'll find myself in an unexpected situation, such as an unplanned restaurant stop. In that case, and if I'm pants pocket carrying, I'll either sit to where I'm not muzzling someone else, or I'll go put the gun in the car (or into a jacket pocket if I'm wearing one).
Just curious, you're OK with your KT pointed at the person across from you since it's in a holster?
No; I won't muzzle anyone with an unloaded weapon, and I sure won't do it with a loaded one, holster or otherwise. That's the reason I brought it up! I was drawing (ha!) a distinction between appendix carry (where you're muzzling yourself) and pocket carry (where you are potentially muzzling others...if you're not paying attention). I pocket carry often, but not exclusively. About the only time I don't pocket carry in a pants pocket is at church, where I would indeed be muzzling someone else. If I carry my Kel-tec to church, it's in my left breast pocket of my suit coat. The muzzle is generally pointed toward my side, but I guess a bullet could graze my gut or leg if I don't draw appropriately. The same can be said of holster carry, though, and it's indeed happened (and on video, on YouTube!).
If I carry my Shield to church, it's in an OWB holster at about 3:00.
Every now and again, I'll find myself in an unexpected situation, such as an unplanned restaurant stop. In that case, and if I'm pants pocket carrying, I'll either sit to where I'm not muzzling someone else, or I'll go put the gun in the car (or into a jacket pocket if I'm wearing one).
Please explain how a properly holster gun is going to shoot someone? Muzzle sweep is when you're holding a gun. Not properly carrying. Messing with the gun in an attempt to not sweep someone while carrying is infinitely more troublesome than just carrying.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Just curious, you're OK with your KT pointed at the person across from you since it's in a holster?
No; I won't muzzle anyone with an unloaded weapon, and I sure won't do it with a loaded one, holster or otherwise. That's the reason I brought it up! I was drawing (ha!) a distinction between appendix carry (where you're muzzling yourself) and pocket carry (where you are potentially muzzling others...if you're not paying attention). I pocket carry often, but not exclusively. About the only time I don't pocket carry in a pants pocket is at church, where I would indeed be muzzling someone else. If I carry my Kel-tec to church, it's in my left breast pocket of my suit coat. The muzzle is generally pointed toward my side, but I guess a bullet could graze my gut or leg if I don't draw appropriately. The same can be said of holster carry, though, and it's indeed happened (and on video, on YouTube!).
If I carry my Shield to church, it's in an OWB holster at about 3:00.
Every now and again, I'll find myself in an unexpected situation, such as an unplanned restaurant stop. In that case, and if I'm pants pocket carrying, I'll either sit to where I'm not muzzling someone else, or I'll go put the gun in the car (or into a jacket pocket if I'm wearing one).
Everyone should be as conscientious of their responsibility to others. Agree 100% except with putting the pistol in the car. An IWB holster in the glovebox would fix that situation.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Please explain how a properly holster gun is going to shoot someone? Muzzle sweep is when you're holding a gun. Not properly carrying. Messing with the gun in an attempt to not sweep someone while carrying is infinitely more troublesome than just carrying.
A loaded gun is a loaded gun. You may think it's OK for your loaded pocket pistol to be pointing at me across the room but I sure don't, ever. A situation where you might need to draw from your pocket while sitting and having a negligent discharge in the heat of the moment is a possibility, where's the bullet going to go? If you can't draw from you pocket while sitting what good is that carry? You seem to be justifying sweeping bystanders because it's less dangerous than trying not to? An ND from my strong side holster is going into my leg or foot or the ground somewhere on a line between me and the bad guy, and I can draw from seated without sweeping anyone. My right to self defense doesn't give me the right to choose to put others in potential danger from my choice of carry IMO.
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Just curious, you're OK with your KT pointed at the person across from you since it's in a holster?
No; I won't muzzle anyone with an unloaded weapon, and I sure won't do it with a loaded one, holster or otherwise. That's the reason I brought it up! I was drawing (ha!) a distinction between appendix carry (where you're muzzling yourself) and pocket carry (where you are potentially muzzling others...if you're not paying attention). I pocket carry often, but not exclusively. About the only time I don't pocket carry in a pants pocket is at church, where I would indeed be muzzling someone else. If I carry my Kel-tec to church, it's in my left breast pocket of my suit coat. The muzzle is generally pointed toward my side, but I guess a bullet could graze my gut or leg if I don't draw appropriately. The same can be said of holster carry, though, and it's indeed happened (and on video, on YouTube!).
If I carry my Shield to church, it's in an OWB holster at about 3:00.
Every now and again, I'll find myself in an unexpected situation, such as an unplanned restaurant stop. In that case, and if I'm pants pocket carrying, I'll either sit to where I'm not muzzling someone else, or I'll go put the gun in the car (or into a jacket pocket if I'm wearing one).
Everyone should be as conscientious of their responsibility to others. Agree 100% except with putting the pistol in the car. An IWB holster in the glovebox would fix that situation.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Please explain how a properly holster gun is going to shoot someone? Muzzle sweep is when you're holding a gun. Not properly carrying. Messing with the gun in an attempt to not sweep someone while carrying is infinitely more troublesome than just carrying.
A loaded gun is a loaded gun. You may think it's OK for your loaded pocket pistol to be pointing at me across the room but I sure don't, ever. A situation where you might need to draw from your pocket while sitting and having a negligent discharge in the heat of the moment is a possibility, where's the bullet going to go? If you can't draw from you pocket while sitting what good is that carry? You seem to be justifying sweeping bystanders because it's less dangerous than trying not to? An ND from my strong side holster is going into my leg or foot or the ground somewhere on a line between me and the bad guy, and I can draw from seated without sweeping anyone. My right to self defense doesn't give me the right to choose to put others in potential danger from my choice of carry IMO.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Muzzle sweep is when you're holding a gun. Not properly carrying.
I prefer to remove as much risk as I can while still doing what I feel is right to protect my family. If I can't carry in my pants without having that barrel pointed at someone else, I'll either change how I'm carrying or I'll not carry in that situation. I think I share Jeff's opinion that if I can't do what I want to do without putting what I feel is unnecessary risk upon others, I won't do it. Sure, a holster'd gun shouldn't fire. I find that speaking in absolutes (ie "will never fire") leads to complacency and mistakes. Always acknowledging the unexpected makes us all safer in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Messing with the gun in an attempt to not sweep someone while carrying is infinitely more troublesome than just carrying.
I agree that trying to adjust the gun while in the situation is more risky than leaving it alone. I would never try to adjust the gun while seated at a restaurant. If I'm in a situation that I don't want to be in, I'll simply stand up and either walk to the restroom to make a change there or go out to the car.
Muzzle sweep is when you're holding a gun. Not properly carrying.
I prefer to remove as much risk as I can while still doing what I feel is right to protect my family. If I can't carry in my pants without having that barrel pointed at someone else, I'll either change how I'm carrying or I'll not carry in that situation. I think I share Jeff's opinion that if I can't do what I want to do without putting what I feel is unnecessary risk upon others, I won't do it. Sure, a holster'd gun shouldn't fire. I find that speaking in absolutes (ie "will never fire") leads to complacency and mistakes. Always acknowledging the unexpected makes us all safer in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Messing with the gun in an attempt to not sweep someone while carrying is infinitely more troublesome than just carrying.
I agree that trying to adjust the gun while in the situation is more risky than leaving it alone. I would never try to adjust the gun while seated at a restaurant. If I'm in a situation that I don't want to be in, I'll simply stand up and either walk to the restroom to make a change there or go out to the car.
You guys need to stop carrying. You're always sweeping with a carried gun. If you buy into hysterics, a bullet will ricochet off hard surfaces and hit bystanders if you carry it with the muzzle pointing down. Here's what the guy that wrote the rules says:
Quote:
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)
Quote:
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)
I have little concern about a gun in a sturdy kydex or leather holster on a belt. On a belt, your body doesn't really move the gun around and nothing ever has a chance to move the trigger or exert any physical pressure on the gun. But, in a front pocket in a soft holster, and when sitting, your body is exerting force on the gun and the gun is potentially moving around a lot. In other words, I treat a pants-pocketed gun as if it's being handled, because my body is moving it around all the time (if I'm getting up and sitting down a lot). This happens a lot at church, where you're standing up for a hymn, sitting back down, standing up for a hymn, sitting back down, etc. I wasn't comfortable with how much the gun and holster were moving around in my rather loose slacks pocket, so I choose to carry differently in that situation.
Your "stop carrying" comment may have been in jest, but I'd never tell anyone to stop carrying a gun because they're being more careful with it than I. To the contrary, I applaud that stuff!
Your "stop carrying" comment may have been in jest, but I'd never tell anyone to stop carrying a gun because they're being more careful with it than I. To the contrary, I applaud that stuff!
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