Shell Shows Off New Portfolio of CK-4 Oils

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Originally Posted By: SSerian
Did a quick search on rotella website for the new t6 cert in 5-30 flavor but didn't find anything. (Mobile device browser) anyone know?


I think that might be coming in December or beyond. I don't know if it'll be CK-4 or FA-4 oil. The only thing I've seen about it was in one of the media articles from Shell's announcement. It mentioned T6 5W30 was on the way and it would be dual rated for both diesel and gasoline, but that's all I read about it.


Slide 9 says 5W30 will be CK-4. Although I'd be surprised if they don't also offer an FA-4 option eventually - in my mind if you are going after fuel economy (which is why use a 5W30 HDDEO) then you should go after the maximum and use the FA-4 version.

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Originally Posted By: SSerian
Did a quick search on rotella website for the new t6 cert in 5-30 flavor but didn't find anything. (Mobile device browser) anyone know?


I think that might be coming in December or beyond. I don't know if it'll be CK-4 or FA-4 oil. The only thing I've seen about it was in one of the media articles from Shell's announcement. It mentioned T6 5W30 was on the way and it would be dual rated for both diesel and gasoline, but that's all I read about it.


Slide 9 says 5W30 will be CK-4. Although I'd be surprised if they don't also offer an FA-4 option eventually - in my mind if you are going after fuel economy (which is why use a 5W30 HDDEO) then you should go after the maximum and use the FA-4 version.


Oops...I overlooked that slide

I agree that it only makes sense to expect it (T6 5W30) in the FA-4 category, too.

 

[userfriendly]

I'll stir the pot by suggesting that a 15w30 FA-4 would be a cost effective and better performing alternative to 5w30 and 10w30 in moderate and hot climates.

 

[userfriendly]

What would 15w30 FA-4 look like on paper? I think something like this;

40C 100C HTHS 3.0-3.2

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: another Todd
I'll be sticking with T6 in the 5w-40 flavor, and will switch over as soon as the CK-4 comes out. Looks like it will provide less ash in the DPF and that will result in less DPF cleaning cycles needed. WIN for the new stuff.
I want to see the other oil companies offerings as well, but I totally like the reduction of regens, so indeed a win for CK-4.


So do you think there will be less regens than when using a low saps oil?
It sounds to me like everyone is jumping on the bandwagon just because of marketing press releases. With all the compiled knowledge that we have about motor oil and then someone comes along and says we can make a low temp-low shear lightweight oil that performs as well as the oils we have proven experience with and get better mileage? I'm not ready to buy in. I don't trust the govt. and I don't trust today's corporate marketing. I worked for a global corp and was lied to first hand.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
Slide 9 says 5W30 will be CK-4. Although I'd be surprised if they don't also offer an FA-4 option eventually - in my mind if you are going after fuel economy (which is why use a 5W30 HDDEO) then you should go after the maximum and use the FA-4 version.

Shell doesn't have an E6, E7, E9 5w-30, at least not in North America, so maybe it's about time. They're behind Castrol, Chevron, Mobil, and Petro-Canada on that one, which seems rather odd.

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: another Todd
I'll be sticking with T6 in the 5w-40 flavor, and will switch over as soon as the CK-4 comes out. Looks like it will provide less ash in the DPF and that will result in less DPF cleaning cycles needed. WIN for the new stuff.
I want to see the other oil companies offerings as well, but I totally like the reduction of regens, so indeed a win for CK-4.


So do you think there will be less regens than when using a low saps oil?
It sounds to me like everyone is jumping on the bandwagon just because of marketing press releases. With all the compiled knowledge that we have about motor oil and then someone comes along and says we can make a low temp-low shear lightweight oil that performs as well as the oils we have proven experience with and get better mileage? I'm not ready to buy in. I don't trust the govt. and I don't trust today's corporate marketing. I worked for a global corp and was lied to first hand.


This is just another advancement in the oil categories. CJ-4 has been around longer than previous oils (CG, CH, CI, CI-4+). Shell says their CJ-4 oils already met the new CK-4 standards but the new formulas are even better.

CK-4 isn't meant to be a lighter, more fuel efficient oil (at least that's not the foremost intent). It may turn out to have slightly lower HTHS for a given weight but it's developed more for handling the higher temps of newer engines. As a bonus, they are expecting better wear protection just as they found with CJ-4, but that isn't the main concern.

Only the FA-4 is touted for improved fuel economy but it is geared towards the next gen engines. The new engines may have different design and alloys to work with the lower HTHS oils but it's unknown if older models will be able to use the FA-4 oils.

It's not just marketing as many like to say.

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: another Todd
I'll be sticking with T6 in the 5w-40 flavor, and will switch over as soon as the CK-4 comes out. Looks like it will provide less ash in the DPF and that will result in less DPF cleaning cycles needed. WIN for the new stuff.
I want to see the other oil companies offerings as well, but I totally like the reduction of regens, so indeed a win for CK-4.


So do you think there will be less regens than when using a low saps oil?
It sounds to me like everyone is jumping on the bandwagon just because of marketing press releases. With all the compiled knowledge that we have about motor oil and then someone comes along and says we can make a low temp-low shear lightweight oil that performs as well as the oils we have proven experience with and get better mileage? I'm not ready to buy in. I don't trust the govt. and I don't trust today's corporate marketing. I worked for a global corp and was lied to first hand.


I've said this many times : the durability standards (engine test requirements) are exactly the same between FA-4 and CK-4 (which are also the same or more stringent than CJ-4) so for durability the performance in an FA-4 oil will be "as well as the oils that we have experience with" there isn't different requirements for the lower visc, fuel economy based oils so arguably they are better performing because they give similar protection at lighter grades and lower HTHS.

And this is not something new 5W30 HDDEO has been around for at least 5 years and I've seen millions of miles of field trials with these oils. Shell even says in the presentation that they have been running these oils in field trials in preparation for the upgrade.

 

[Solarent]

Petro Canada Responds : http://www.todaystrucking.com/petro-canada-debuts-branding-for-new-engine-oil-categories

although with much less detail... still no hints as to what the new Duron lineup will be.

 

[loneryder]

Less regens???

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Less regens???
Yes; short for regenerations. This is the process by which modern diesels reduce pollution by using a diesel particulate filter or DPF and selective catalyst reduction or SCR to capture the soot (DPF) and reduce NOX (SCR). The system does a regeneration where it burns extra fuel to convert the soot in the DPF to ash. Low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulphur) oils are said to reduce the number of regens needed because they help reduce the amount of soot that is produced.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I still think the best way to reduce soot loading on the DPF (and the engine itself for that matter) is to shut the EGR off via a ECM tune. That would do far more to reduce regens than a low SAPS oil could ever do. It is just plain criminal to make a diesel eat its own feces.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I still think the best way to reduce soot loading on the DPF (and the engine itself for that matter) is to shut the EGR off via a ECM tune. That would do far more to reduce regens than a low SAPS oil could ever do. It is just plain criminal to make a diesel eat its own feces.
Except that (for light duty diesel pickup trucks):

1. It is just plain criminal to tamper with the emissions system on any modern diesel pickup truck.
2. EVERY single aftermarket ECM tune produces more emissions and brings back that familiar diesel smell and black smoke laden exhaust.
3. It positively voids the warranty on the vehicle.
4. Depending on the locality/state can render the vehicle unable to be legally sold.
5. Most of these tunes/deletes are very expensive and are very problematic.

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: loneryder
Less regens???
Yes; short for regenerations. This is the process by which modern diesels reduce pollution by using a diesel particulate filter or DPF and selective catalyst reduction or SCR to capture the soot (DPF) and reduce NOX (SCR). The system does a regeneration where it burns extra fuel to convert the soot in the DPF to ash. Low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulphur) oils are said to reduce the number of regens needed because they help reduce the amount of soot that is produced.

Yes I know what they are as I have a MB 3L cdi. My question is will these new oils reduce the frequency of regens as someone suggested?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: loneryder
Less regens???
Yes; short for regenerations. This is the process by which modern diesels reduce pollution by using a diesel particulate filter or DPF and selective catalyst reduction or SCR to capture the soot (DPF) and reduce NOX (SCR). The system does a regeneration where it burns extra fuel to convert the soot in the DPF to ash. Low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulphur) oils are said to reduce the number of regens needed because they help reduce the amount of soot that is produced.
Yes I know what they are as I have a MB 3L cdi. My question is will these new oils reduce the frequency of regens as someone suggested?
If CK-4 oils have lower SAPS than CJ-4 oils, then yes, it **may** help reduce regens, but that is widely an unknown until it is tested in the individual engine/operating conditions. On paper it seems that it would, but as with everything else YMMV.

 

[Sealbilly]

I just hope they didn't lower the zinc and phosphorus in the new formulas. Lots of my buddies use rotella in small block chevy engines with high lift cams, the regular ol 15w40 in the white jug.

 

[53' Stude]

You can be assured SOPUS will do this. That's why they make Delo 400 15w40 and XLE 10w30. I have plenty of EMBLEM 15w40 which is Kendall made HDEO from the late 80's to use up in my Jeep

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sealbilly
I just hope they didn't lower the zinc and phosphorus in the new formulas. Lots of my buddies use rotella in small block chevy engines with high lift cams, the regular ol 15w40 in the white jug.

You will likely only see that with ACEA E6 lubricants, like the 5w-30 HDEOs. Of course, when they formulate these oils, they obviously took into account reduced phosphorus requirements and would make up anti-wear in other ways.

 

[Solarent]

if someone comes out with 15W40 CK-4/SN it will have lower phosphorus for sure. in Shell's case it doesn't look like that will be happening as the only "universal" oil they listed was the 5W30 CK-4 SN. Like Garak says, the antiwear chemistry is different (and so are the detergents, dispersants and pretty much everything else). this is because under the new regime of 800ppm phophorus for SN for all grades, a different - and argueably better - formulating approach has to be taken.

 

[Garak]

Oh yes, I forgot your mention of that from before. Maybe we will see more lubes being E6 after all, if not formally, in a de facto fashion.

As an aside, what might we see A3/B4 40 grades do? Will they drop the SN?