Looking for a high caliber semi auto rifle

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
You're stuck on issues from 1965.


Here is more to help you with your "education". "Stuck on issues from 1965". Yeah, right. Wake up.

https://warisboring.com/the-armys-main-r...c76b#.mvbg6bbkx


WANAT was an example of a lot of things gone wrong. That said, one of the CRITICISMS is about a guy who ran 12 mags through a rifle, firing on average a round every 4 seconds (you can bet it was way more than that, and way less, depending, during that 1.5 hours).

You try that with an M14 under similar conditions. Or any rifle. Pick one.

Like I said, steeped in politics. You missed all the firefights in which not a single problem occurred, when soldiers used better mags and maintained the weapons well, even though some weapons were used at least as hard as Wanat saw. But like I said, it's all to push an agenda. And yet USASOC still loves the M4 type, and as you said, they can have whatever.
They would have never had enough ammo to run an M14 that hard in combat. 5.56 platforms bring a lot more ammo to the fight. And then get a negative mark because guns get hot.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Ws6


Yeah, I would not use that ammo on a deer.

62gr Federal Fusion
62gr Tipped Trophy Bonded
64gr Nosler Bonded
62,64,and 75gr Speer Gold Dot
55,62,70gr Barnes TSX
55gr and 70gr Hornady GMX

These are all made for deer and hog type things. Or LE use.


LOL! No, my deer ammo is 150gr Federal.

I've never seen anything on that list up here. The Hornady ones we have are these:

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-53-gr-V-MAX-Superformance/

53gr red tips, designed for varmint. They shoot well (and are expensive). According to the description they are designed to fragment.

The Winchester varmint ones:
http://winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/Value/Jacketed-Hollow-Point/Pages/USA2232.aspx

Despite saying "explosive fragmentation" definitely didn't, LOL!

They went straight through. I actually shot a squirrel straight through the shoulder with one of these and it took him a good 10-15 seconds to realize he was dead. He just sat there on the fence post, twitched his tail a few times like nothing happened and then fell off it.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
That's preposterous.


What's "preposterous" is making the worst choice to accomplish the task at hand. When there are so many better one's to choose from. But understanding that requires common sense. In many cases, such as this one, that's not a common commodity. And you're correct, I've never shot deer with a .22. I can add that to the list of many other stupid things I have not tried.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
.....one of the CRITICISMS is about a guy who ran 12 mags through a rifle, firing on average a round every 4 seconds (you can bet it was way more than that, and way less, depending, during that 1.5 hours). You try that with an M14 under similar conditions. Or any rifle. Pick one.


“My weapon was overheating,” another soldier said. “I had shot about 12 magazines by this point already and it had only been about half an hour or so into the fight.” In other words, the soldier fired approximately 360 rounds in 30 minutes. That’s 14 rounds a minute—one every four seconds."

Having a weapon fail from overheating, that has shot 360 rounds in a half hour is totally unacceptable performance. Most any semi out there can maintain that rate of fire. Even a Ruger Mini 14. And it's never been "battle tested". I've shot doubles in Trap on a fast squad. And easily fired 50 rounds in less than 10 minutes. And that's 5 rounds a minute out of a thin barreled shotgun pushing an 1-1/8 ounce of lead at 1,200 FPS with every shot. Hardly "battlefield performance". No matter how you want to look at it, the gun is prone to overheating, and jams as a direct result. There are all but countless reports of it not being able to produce the intended rate of fire it is designed to.

Get your video camera and your mini 14 and 400 rounds of M855/M193 and conduct the test.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
.....one of the CRITICISMS is about a guy who ran 12 mags through a rifle, firing on average a round every 4 seconds (you can bet it was way more than that, and way less, depending, during that 1.5 hours). You try that with an M14 under similar conditions. Or any rifle. Pick one.


“My weapon was overheating,” another soldier said. “I had shot about 12 magazines by this point already and it had only been about half an hour or so into the fight.” In other words, the soldier fired approximately 360 rounds in 30 minutes. That’s 14 rounds a minute—one every four seconds."

Having a weapon fail from overheating, that has shot 360 rounds in a half hour is totally unacceptable performance. Most any semi out there can maintain that rate of fire. Even a Ruger Mini 14. And it's never been "battle tested". I've shot doubles in Trap on a fast squad. And easily fired 50 rounds in less than 10 minutes. And that's 5 rounds a minute out of a thin barreled shotgun pushing an 1-1/8 ounce of lead at 1,200 FPS with every shot. Hardly "battlefield performance". No matter how you want to look at it, the gun is prone to overheating, and jams as a direct result. There are all but countless reports of it not being able to produce the intended rate of fire it is designed to.



Were you there? That might have been 300 rounds ASAP, and then the other 60, for all we know. Oh, here is me burning 90 rounds, suppressed, less than 1 minute. Not even pushing things. You time it. That's what, 1.5 rounds per second?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx9nXxFbLpQ

Seriously. Get off the internet and go do it. You'll be amazed at what you discover!

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
That's preposterous.


What's "preposterous" is making the worst choice to accomplish the task at hand. When there are so many better one's to choose from. But understanding that requires common sense. In many cases, such as this one, that's not a common commodity. And you're correct, I've never shot deer with a .22. I can add that to the list of many other stupid things I have not tried.

I'd like to see a picture of your .50 BMG deer rifle. Because mo is bettah! Anything less than the best is "preposterous".

Oh...you don't use a .50? Why not? Why on earth NOT!? Maybe because it's not necessary, it's absurd, and you see no need. Kindof like how I view whatever you're recommending. I can destroy every vital organ in the chest of a Whitetail with my M4, why bother with doing something else? Give me one good reason. just one.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
LOL! No, my deer ammo is 150gr Federal. I've never seen anything on that list up here.


It would appear you hunt where people apply common sense to their caliber and ammunition choices.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Ws6


Yeah, I would not use that ammo on a deer.

62gr Federal Fusion
62gr Tipped Trophy Bonded
64gr Nosler Bonded
62,64,and 75gr Speer Gold Dot
55,62,70gr Barnes TSX
55gr and 70gr Hornady GMX

These are all made for deer and hog type things. Or LE use.


LOL! No, my deer ammo is 150gr Federal.

I've never seen anything on that list up here. The Hornady ones we have are these:

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-53-gr-V-MAX-Superformance/

53gr red tips, designed for varmint. They shoot well (and are expensive). According to the description they are designed to fragment.

The Winchester varmint ones:
http://winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/Value/Jacketed-Hollow-Point/Pages/USA2232.aspx

Despite saying "explosive fragmentation" definitely didn't, LOL!

They went straight through. I actually shot a squirrel straight through the shoulder with one of these and it took him a good 10-15 seconds to realize he was dead. He just sat there on the fence post, twitched his tail a few times like nothing happened and then fell off it.


I'd refrain from using that on deer.

Even when you destroy the pumphouse, things don't die instantly. I've seen multiple videos of deer cored through the pumphouse with a .300WM and the like, and they don't figure out they are dead for 5-15 seconds.

Bullets ain't magic. They kill by dropping bloodpressure via volume-loss, or "pump removal", or disruption of the CNS (close to magic...)

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Ws6
Oh...you don't use a .50? Why not? Why on earth NOT!? Maybe because it's not necessary, it's absurd, and you see no need. Kindof like how I view whatever you're recommending. I can destroy every vital organ in the chest of a Whitetail with my M4, why bother with doing something else? Give me one good reason. just one.


Now you've resorted to talking like a complete fool, all in an attempt to support your already stupid position of hunting large game with rifles and ammunition designed for shooting varmints and pests. As I said, common sense is never common.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Oh...you don't use a .50? Why not? Why on earth NOT!? Maybe because it's not necessary, it's absurd, and you see no need. Kindof like how I view whatever you're recommending. I can destroy every vital organ in the chest of a Whitetail with my M4, why bother with doing something else? Give me one good reason. just one.


Now you've resorted to talking like a complete fool, all in an attempt to support your already stupid position of hunting large game with rifles and ammunition designed for shooting varmints and pests. As I said, common sense is never common.


I think your opinion on the matter is overshadowed by all of the major ammunition companies who load deer rounds in .223, and the metric buttload of sportsmen using it to good effect on deer, myself include.

 

[hatt]

Ten years ago I wasn't big on the .223 for deer. Then I looked at the available information. You have to remember that the .223 came about in the same time frame as magnum mania. All the sudden, if you didn't have a 7mm rem mag, little deer were going to laugh at you. Old standards because useless, never mind the .223. If we had had the internets 100 years ago we could read about all the old timers criticizing all those newfangled high speed rifle rounds like .30-30.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Ten years ago I wasn't big on the .223 for deer. Then I looked at the available information. You have to remember that the .223 came about in the same time frame as magnum mania. All the sudden, if you didn't have a 7mm rem mag, little deer were going to laugh at you. Old standards because useless, never mind the .223. If we had had the internets 100 years ago we could read about all the old timers criticizing all those newfangled high speed rifle rounds like .30-30.


It's amazing how the 5.56 is inadequate for deer, when people killed them by the thousands with things like the .25-20. I wonder...when did deer evolve? I mean, what did an early 1900's deer look like? One really wonders...

 

[hatt]

I'm sure it started because idiots were shooting deer with 40 grain varmint bullets and having poor results. Once these things get started they're hard to stop. It also happened with other high speed rounds. Weatherby rounds were known to wound game. The rounds themselves! It couldn't be improper bullet selection or other hunter errors.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: hatt
I'm sure it started because idiots were shooting deer with 40 grain varmint bullets and having poor results. Once these things get started they're hard to stop. It also happened with other high speed rounds. Weatherby rounds were known to wound game. The rounds themselves! It couldn't be improper bullet selection or other hunter errors.


That, and/or people shooting deer with FMJ rounds and getting a similar effect, or an ice-pick, whichever way Murphy was leaning that day, because they had heard how the rounds "took off limbs" and whatnot.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
I'm sure it started because idiots were shooting deer with 40 grain varmint bullets and having poor results.


And ended when even bigger idiots started shooting them with 60 grain "big game" rounds.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
I'm sure it started because idiots were shooting deer with 40 grain varmint bullets and having poor results.


And ended when even bigger idiots started shooting them with 60 grain "big game" rounds.

Blows a nice hole through and through the boiler room. I suppose you find that inadequate somehow? Do tell...