R-12 A/C

[brave sir robin]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Using HC based refrigerant, I was in an accident with a drunk driver that resulted in the loss of the entire front end of my car beyond the windshield washer nozzles, and my transmission erupted out of the floor and ended up in the back seat. Know what? No fire.


There's not enough energy in few ounces of propane to cause that type of damage. Average modern car takes less around 6 ounces of propane which is enough to make a nice rapid but small bang but that's about it.

I had an engine fire two years ago which involved an ac line rupturing. It was charged with r12 at the time and I watched one of the lines explode and then throw fire about four feet. It was like the most intense dragons breath you have seen. The hair was burned off of my arms head and eyebrows singed.

I have pics somewhere on the net and will post them If I can find em.

 

[brave sir robin]

and finally the burst line

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: brave sir robin
I had an engine fire two years ago which involved an ac line rupturing. It was charged with r12 at the time and I watched one of the lines explode and then throw fire about four feet. It was like the most intense dragons breath you have seen.


So that wasn't R-12 then, or at least not pure R-12. R-12 has no flash point and is non-flammable.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
So that wasn't R-12 then, or at least not pure R-12. R-12 has no flash point and is non-flammable.

 

[kschachn]

Cite a reference?

Dichlorodifluoromethane has no flash point and is non-flammable. It does not support combustion.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Cite a reference?


You've apparently forgotten that R12 systems also include a mineral oil, and that combination has no problems burning.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Cite a reference?


You've apparently forgotten that R12 systems also include a mineral oil, and that combination has no problems burning.


OK that part I will buy and yes I did forget. But the R12 will not burn. That picture you posted is not the dichlorodifluoromethane burning. In fact, one of its uses was as a fire suppression agent.

 

[brave sir robin]

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Im sorry but this is flipping hilarious to me.

r12 itself is not very flammable BUT the mineral oil that is atomized throughout the system very much is.

I post pictures of what happened to my own car and still I see this horsechit

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: brave sir robin
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Im sorry but this is flipping hilarious to me.

r12 itself is not very flammable BUT the mineral oil that is atomized throughout the system very much is.

I post pictures of what happened to my own car and still I see this [censored]


Glad you find it so "flipping hilarious". No, it isn't "not very flammable" it isn't flammable at all.

And I agreed that the lubricating oil can burn.

 

[brave sir robin]

The line literally exploded in front of my own eyes. It was intense enough to burn all of the hair off of my arms and took 1/3 of the hair from my eyebrows.

This is my car. I was standing a few feet in front of the bumper when this all happened. The firewall to bumper distance on my car aint exactly small............

 

[JHZR2]

My 1981 and 1982 MBs both have R-12 systems. I have a large container of R-12 and the EPA certs to buy. R-12 has come down a good deal in price. It works better in systems with the older compressors and condensers.

Nothing wrong with R-12, though its your duty to repair issues prior to recharging.

If you want to take your life in your hands, it is possible to convert to R134a and then re-convert to propane/butane mix, which is superior. Need to re-read the law on that though, as sham conversions are an issue somehow.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Or, just convert to R-134a and forget it. Been there and done that...three conversions in my driveway, all blow cold.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Like I have said in the past, I have converted all the vehicles I have owned to a hydrocarbon refrigerant and it worked excellent. My Ram will be getting converted once the warranty is up.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My 1981 and 1982 MBs both have R-12 systems. I have a large container of R-12 and the EPA certs to buy. R-12 has come down a good deal in price. It works better in systems with the older compressors and condensers.

Nothing wrong with R-12, though its your duty to repair issues prior to recharging.

If you want to take your life in your hands, it is possible to convert to R134a and then re-convert to propane/butane mix, which is superior. Need to re-read the law on that though, as sham conversions are an issue somehow.


The R-12 to R-134a conversions work OK, but R-12 in R-12 system is better than a R-134a conversion any day of the week. 401A works as a better substitute than R-134A in a R-12 system. Been there done that.

 

[Jarlaxle]

My Caddy will blow 38 degrees in 95 degree ambient. It's a 134a swap from Pep Boys, with the original 37-year-old compressor, junkyard condenser, hoses made at NAPA, no exotic parts. The car will be uncomfortably COLD with the fan on high, despite being black.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: brave sir robin
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Im sorry but this is flipping hilarious to me.

r12 itself is not very flammable BUT the mineral oil that is atomized throughout the system very much is.

I post pictures of what happened to my own car and still I see this horsechit


Cool, so the increase in "danger" from HC refrigerants is therefore horse pucks as well as the "non combustible" refrigerants will release clouds of vaporised oil mist on rupture anyway.

Makes sense to me...thanks for that.

 

[GMBoy]

Quote: "The US EPA SNAP regulations do NOT allow the use of flammable refrigerants in vehicles"

Source: http://www.aa1car.com/library/flammable_refrigerants.htm

Some additional good reading: http://www.aa1car.com/library/tr497.htm


(This is a trusted source)

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Quote: "The US EPA SNAP regulations do NOT allow the use of flammable refrigerants in vehicles"


Isn't HFO-1234yf being installed ?

In cars ?

 

[Shannow]

For those worried about their lives being at risk from HC, have a look at this video.

It's one of my University Lecturers, who I did the various refrigeration subjects with.



He purposely filled a car with an entire recharge worth of gas (not a typical leak), and ignited it, with himself sitting in it.

It's not pleasant, it was stupid (cost him his job), but clearly it's not the level of lethality that should have installers shot.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Quote: "The US EPA SNAP regulations do NOT allow the use of flammable refrigerants in vehicles"

Source: http://www.aa1car.com/library/flammable_refrigerants.htm

Some additional good reading: http://www.aa1car.com/library/tr497.htm


(This is a trusted source)
That doesn't affect me, I'm in Canada.