Should I switch back to paper from K&N?

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Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
Originally Posted By: Donald
Why does anyone go to K&N in the first place?
+10


$50 once plus some $4 cleaning supplies every once in a blue moon vs $10-15 every 15,000 miles. Just like taking the lump sum in the lottery and investing it vs [censored] away all your money every year as an annuity.
 
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
Originally Posted By: Donald
Why does anyone go to K&N in the first place?
+10


$50 once plus some $4 cleaning supplies every once in a blue moon vs $10-15 every 15,000 miles. Just like taking the lump sum in the lottery and investing it vs [censored] away all your money every year as an annuity.


Except air filters last a lot longer than 15,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
Why does anyone go to K&N in the first place?


Because they think it looks cool, or because all the gearheads seem to be using them. Or they fall for the hype on their website or in their marketing materials.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
Originally Posted By: Donald
Why does anyone go to K&N in the first place?
+10


$50 once plus some $4 cleaning supplies every once in a blue moon vs $10-15 every 15,000 miles. Just like taking the lump sum in the lottery and investing it vs [censored] away all your money every year as an annuity.


Except air filters last a lot longer than 15,000 miles.



No, actually. On any normal car I guarantee you if you look in the manual it says to replace the intake air filter every 10 or 15k. Any manufacturer who lists above 20k is listening to their marketing team more than their engineers. Good luck running 30k on a car that lives on a dirt road sweety.
 
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Jumping in this thread kind of late but...

I switched back to a paper filter on my Caliber. There was a noticeable noise/pep loss in doing so (I felt it, but lets be real it wasn't earth shattering), but with the turbo I was worried about excess filth and oil getting into all the plumbing. I also noticed on the other side of the filter the pipe was dirty, it shouldn't be if the filter does its job.


On my Mustang I've left the K&N on, as the paper filters are pretty expensive (Ford racing intake, $40ish dollar paper filter).
 
Originally Posted By: horse123
Good luck running 30k on a car that lives on a dirt road sweety.


Wait, I thought I was your sweetie? Now it's OVERKILL??
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: horse123
Good luck running 30k on a car that lives on a dirt road sweety.


Wait, I thought I was your sweetie? Now it's OVERKILL??


I love and hate everyone, all at the same time.
 
Originally Posted By: horse123


No, actually. On any normal car I guarantee you if you look in the manual it says to replace the intake air filter every 10 or 15k. Any manufacturer who lists above 20k is listening to their marketing team more than their engineers. Good luck running 30k on a car that lives on a dirt road sweety.


Most manuals show up to 50k for normal driving, obviously driving in dusty and unpaved roads would shorten that interval...now the aftermarket air filter companies may say 10k-15k but then they're in the business of selling more filters.

Paper air filters have a much greater capacity while keeping a consistent flow. Products like K&N may have greater flow at first (though not enough for any stock engine to see appreciable gains in power or efficiency) but fall off rather quickly so they do need cleaning every 10k-15k minimum even under normal driving conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Except air filters last a lot longer than 15,000 miles.

When K&N came into their own, FCIs were pretty short, compared to now, at least in a lot of applications. Also, when more modern air boxes started coming out, K&N filters simultaneously became less useful from a technical standpoint and became more cost effective, since K&N had been aggressively pricing their filters. I remember I threw one into my Town Car, since it was only double the price of an OEM paper filter (remember how expensive those square filters were when they first came out). I simply threw it in and never touched it for the three or so years and hundred thousand plus kilometres I had the car. In my case, it paid for itself.
 
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
they do need cleaning every 10k-15k minimum even under normal driving conditions.


Biggest problem is people cleaning the K&N too much, they recommend 50,000 miles before cleaning. All filters need loading to become effective, K&N need much more loading.
 
Originally Posted By: horse123


No, actually. On any normal car I guarantee you if you look in the manual it says to replace the intake air filter every 10 or 15k. Any manufacturer who lists above 20k is listening to their marketing team more than their engineers. Good luck running 30k on a car that lives on a dirt road sweety.


On a vehicle with a restriction gauge (which is how one properly ascertains when it is necessary to change the filter based on loading) it has been proven time and time again that the mileage based intervals are insanely conservative. Claiming longer intervals are based on "marketing" there honey-bunch does nothing to bolster the legitimacy of your claim.

Regarding living on a dusty road, yes, that will reduce the interval, and this is covered in most owner's manuals.

Regarding the part I've bolded and underlined:

On the E39 BMW, air filters are part of the Service II schedule, which is designed around being every 48 months or 60,000 miles, but will vary depending on fuel consumed, which is what controls the service interval notifications on 1997 and newer vehicles.

The Charger's interval is 32,000 miles or 24 months. They call for an inspection at 16,000 miles (12 months) if operated in dusty or off-road conditions.

The Expedition's interval is 30,000 miles as per Ford.

These are all "normal" vehicles. Would you like some more examples?

The 2012 Subaru Impreza:

maintenance2012a.JPG


Shows the air filter change interval at 48,000Km/30,000 miles, which is in-line with Ford and Dodge's recommendation above.
 
Originally Posted By: horse123
Good luck running 30k on a car that lives on a dirt road sweety.


Funny. I do that, and utilizing a restriction gauge, have no problem making that mileage.

Of course, that's just actual observable quality data vs. baseless forum garbage.
 
Just for arguments sake, 3 UOA prior and 3 post K&N panel filter installation have resulted in virtually identical Silicon and Insoluble ppm numbers (both very low). But hey, I'm just one voice swimming against the anti-K&N current here.
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Just for arguments sake, 3 UOA prior and 3 post K&N panel filter installation have resulted in virtually identical Silicon and Insoluble ppm numbers (both very low). But hey, I'm just one voice swimming against the anti-K&N current here.


Perhaps you just have very clean air in your area to begin with.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: wemay
Just for arguments sake, 3 UOA prior and 3 post K&N panel filter installation have resulted in virtually identical Silicon and Insoluble ppm numbers (both very low). But hey, I'm just one voice swimming against the anti-K&N current here.


Perhaps you just have very clean air in your area to begin with.


That's a fair point and must be considered.
 
Is it possible for the k&n filter to make an engine run lean and have hotter temps under wot acceleration?
 
Huh? I suppose if the oil contaminated the MAF heavily enough to warp the interpretation it could make it run lean.

I have to say that would be a new one for a K&N filter.
 
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