Briggs & Stratton better than Honda

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Garandman
Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Hey Garandman, that's really cool. I'm not surprised you got no help from Honda retrofitting an engine to some other machine. I AM surprised you got such excellent service from ANY company on such a project.

That 35 year-old Ariens looks super. Did you repaint it?

Hey, I just realized, you're one person that managed to wear out an small engine before the machine it's attached to rotted away or fell apart. What's your secret?

Rehosted the photos a few years ago.
1970 Tecumseh H50 versus OHV B&S intel Snow.
[img:left]http://dervish.smugmug.com/People/Misc/7068392_p66kxn#!i=461434522&k=txs5jx3&lb=1&s=L[/img]

And the machine after replacing misc bushings, bearings etc and repainting. My brother still uses this machine to do his driveway and several neighbors.

I've had good luck with B&S and Honda so no dog in the fight.

Very nice Ariens! I'm currently restoring a 1960s Ariens Sno-Thro. The old Tecumseh knocks really bad so I'm replacing it with a Briggs 9HP snow engine and repainting the machine. Where did you get those tires? The tires on mine are original and super dry rotted.

 

[lars11]

Well, have a 1970s 3.5 briggs flathead that started on 3 pulls after like 15 yrs in the shed. amazing. runs well too.
Then we have a few sprint 40, a 625, '99 375 flat heads and they too run almost crazy well. Then a Honda 160 on a new mower with only 30 hrs so far, and it too runs well and starts nicely just like the briggs. I also have a snow blower with a 30 yr old Tecumseh hs50 that really runs nice, annoying flooding carb though.
Not conviced to put extra money myself on honda yet.

BUT: The equipment rental store refuse to buy anything but hondas on their machines. Says that any moron can start them, they get fewer support calls, cancelled rents and less repairs, so it seems there may be some truth in that they are a little more stable than other engines.

 

[Clevy]

Honda makes the best small engines on earth. I've got 5.5 hp engines running air compressors with over 10000 hours on them without needing a rebuild yet.
Heck I had a generator seize up because the guys ran it with no oil for days. I took the recoil off,cranked it over with a pipe wrench,added oil and its still in service today.

 

[GregGA]

Well I am all for Honda, and I do not have any experience with 10k hour Honda's.

Maybe in the past Briggs was the top dog in small engines. I have a 20 year old Briggs IC on a pressure washer. Very low hours. Always tough to start. And I admit, I didn't always maintain it as I know how to now (thanks to BITOG). Anyway, it finally needed a carb,and they are out of production. Found one on ebay for $74.

Bottom line, I bought a chonda at Harbor Freight for $109, and couldn't be happier: more power, better fuel economy, smoother, quieter. I know I am comparing a dinosaur with a modern engine, and I do not know how a newer OHC Briggs performs, but all the evidence points to Honda

 

[Clayslayer]

Here's my .02:

I've had good, and bad, luck with Briggs, and Honda

I've worked with a lot of Briggs engines. My 3hp horizontal flathead on my go-kart as a kid never failed to start before the thousandth pull. When it did weakly cough to life it'd die in an asthmatic fashion in ft tq Briggs overhead valve engine. That gawddammed thing would NEVER start. What a piece of [censored]. When it DID, at usually the 500-600th pull it'd run great. Yay. In 1998 I bought a JS60 push mower with a 6hp Briggs flat head. That little bugger started on the first or second pull and ran like a champ for 16 years until the governor failed, oversped, and blew up. Had the gov not failed I'd bet it would have ran another 16 years. It had over 500 hours on it when it suddenly croaked.

Hondas: Replaced the briggs on the JS60 with a GCV160. Ran like a peach for one year then the carb died. $20 fix and it's back at it. GCV190 on a Honda branded self propelled: Only about 25 hours on it so far but it's a monster. Awesome power, rather quiet, and I'm not sure if it even burns fuel... It only holds a quart and will go for hours and hours and hours mulching [censored] that no mower should be subjected to. GCV160 on a pressure washer. Starts a little harder than the other two but still starts by pull #3 every time. Guessing around 100-150 hours? No issues at all. Ever. GX270 on a post pounder. The GX is a beastly thing and just a marvel. It has been in service running 8-10 hours a day in the summer for the better part of a decade. Guessing 1500-2000 hours or so? It starts first pull EVERY time, and happily runs forEVER on a tank of fuel. It's used and abused. Oil changes happen when we go "Hmm...when DID we last change the oil in that thing?!". My grandkids might not wear it out.

Tecumseh: Best possible use is to tie a long nylon rope to them and use them as an anchor for a small boat.

Bottom line: Love em or hate em the Honda GX is the best out there by far. Yeah yeah, there are similar quality competetors out there from Yamaha and Kawasaki but I know how darn good the GX is. If my push mower ever needs a new mill, it's getting a GXV160. I like the GCV but the GX is worth the extra dough. If you've got something that works and makes you happy then stick with it. My cheap flathead 6hp Briggs was one such. I got lucky with that one tho. After all the shoulder surgeries in my life I will NOT own another small engine that requires more than three pulls to start.

Chondas: Ok...I have one. A Champion 212cc horizontal on a generator. It performs exactly like the Honda GX mentioned above. It goes and goes and goes and goes.... EASY to start, fuel efficient. I had it in the back of my truck last February. Completely covered in snow. I needed to use it and just cleared enough snow away to get at the pull start and the on/off switch. First 1/2 assed pull.... wow. I was amazed. I let it run until it melted the snow around it (lazy I know) and it happily powered a bunch of [censored] for the next ten hours. Your mileage may vary with Chonda engines but I got a darn good one. For the price they're worth trying.

So there.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Clayslayer
I like the GCV but the GX is worth the extra dough.


This is a true statement all day long. I have a GCV190 on an HRB217, and it's a great little engine. I LOVE that mower (resin deck, so easy to use), but the engine is very nice. It doesn't compare, though, to the GXV140 on my HR215. I'm not as in love with the mower (it must weigh 130 pounds), but the engine sounds and feels so smooth. I'm sure much of that is due to the beastly heavy deck, absorbing some vibrations.

The GCV190's carb got finnicky on me earlier this season. I replaced it with the original carb from a 2003 GCV160 I kept around as a spare, and that sucker runs better than it ever has now. I've not once opened that 2003 carburetor, and that 190 engine just purrs like a kitten now. Super quiet, super efficient, but it doesn't bog down in nearly any grass. And I have a wide creek through my backyard and cut some THICK grass back there. Where the HR215 wants to sink in to the soft soil on the creek bank, the HRB217 just skates along on top. It's quickly become by favorite mower to use by far.

But, totally agree on the engines. The GX series engine is one tough horse.

 

[1foxracing]

I wonder if the original poster is still around since this thread is almost 9 years old now? I had to read the original posting to see how this was so many pages long. I do find it interesting that a small engine repair guy would recommend a B&S over a Honda then it made total sence. I guy in the business of fixing small engines would recommend a B&S over a Honda because he knows you're going to be bring it to him to fix where the Honda isn't going to fail to begin with.
Ever watch that donboy73 on youtube? What's he fixing all the time?? Briggs powered equipment.. For snow throwers it's usually Tecumseh's that through rods through the case, those engines are junk as well. Snowblowers being repaired always seem to be some variant of a MTD product. His entire channel is great info on what not to buy.
Ever notice many auto mechanics drive Honda's or Toyota's, you know why? Mechanics don't like fixing their own cars. I work primarily on Ducati motorcycles but only own 1 of them (999 S),a 1969 BSA 650 lightning and 14 other various Japanese motorcycles. I much prefer riding my own motorcycles verses turning wrenches on them.

 

[4WD]

I have a B&S VG twin - those motors compete in the upper cost sector and are global motors ...

 

[jeepman3071]

As a small engine mechanic, I can say that each brand has some good engines and some questionable ones. I wouldn't say any one brand is superior in general to another one, except maybe Tecumseh. Even then, I have customers with 1960s Tecumseh snow engines that have had hard lives and only needed yearly oil changes. It's all about how the engine is maintained.

In no particular order these are some of my favorite engines. They are favorites because of their ease of maintenance, durability, and reliability:

-Briggs I/C flatheads
-Briggs Intek Horizontal OHV single cylinder engines, the verticals tend to blow headgaskets
-Kohler K-series
-Kohler Command and Command Pro OHV singles and V-Twins
-Kawasaki Flatheads and single cylinder OHVs
-Honda GX horizontal shaft OHV engines
-Predator (Honda GX clone) 212cc OHV
-Early Tecumseh snow engines, like the H70
-Tecumseh 2 cycle engines found in small snowblowers

Most disliked:
-Any of the Kohler Courage engines
-Briggs vertical shaft OHV inteks on lawn tractors
-Clone OHV Chinese engines on MTD lawn mowers
-Newer Tecumseh Snow Kings, especially neglected ones
-Generic Honda clones

 

[Colt45ws]

Do you know why the Intek Verticals blow HGs? Are the V-Twins included in that?

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
As a small engine mechanic, I can say that each brand has some good engines and some questionable ones. I wouldn't say any one brand is superior in general to another one, except maybe Tecumseh. Even then, I have customers with 1960s Tecumseh snow engines that have had hard lives and only needed yearly oil changes. It's all about how the engine is maintained.

In no particular order these are some of my favorite engines. They are favorites because of their ease of maintenance, durability, and reliability:

-Briggs I/C flatheads
-Briggs Intek Horizontal OHV single cylinder engines, the verticals tend to blow headgaskets
-Kohler K-series
-Kohler Command and Command Pro OHV singles and V-Twins
-Kawasaki Flatheads and single cylinder OHVs
-Honda GX horizontal shaft OHV engines
-Predator (Honda GX clone) 212cc OHV
-Early Tecumseh snow engines, like the H70
-Tecumseh 2 cycle engines found in small snowblowers

Most disliked:
-Any of the Kohler Courage engines
-Briggs vertical shaft OHV inteks on lawn tractors
-Clone OHV Chinese engines on MTD lawn mowers
-Newer Tecumseh Snow Kings, especially neglected ones
-Generic Honda clones



Wheres the Kawasaki twin cylinder engines? Like the FRs and FXs.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Do you know why the Intek Verticals blow HGs? Are the V-Twins included in that?


There is a weak point on the valve side where there isn't a bolt. The gasket commonly blows between the cylinder and the push rod side. This happens on both the single cylinder and V-Twin ohv engines. This causes a lot of oil burning, which if the problem isn't caught in time leads to low oil and a thrown rod.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: NH73

Wheres the Kawasaki twin cylinder engines? Like the FRs and FXs.


The engines I didn't mention are middle of the road. I don't love them nor hate them. Some of the earlier Kawi Twins are great engines, but I've seen quite a few newer Kawasaki twins that burn a ton of oil due to faulty piston rings, leading to low oil, thrown rods, etc. I've seen a few defects like plastic cam gears shearing on John Deere tractors with liquid cooled engines. Are they good engines? Sure, but they are pretty comparable to the Kohler Command Twins in my opinion. I wouldn't pay a premium for the Kawasaki over the Kohler, and I find Kohler parts to be cheaper and easier to find.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Do you know why the Intek Verticals blow HGs? Are the V-Twins included in that?


There is a weak point on the valve side where there isn't a bolt. The gasket commonly blows between the cylinder and the push rod side. This happens on both the single cylinder and V-Twin ohv engines. This causes a lot of oil burning, which if the problem isn't caught in time leads to low oil and a thrown rod.

I have a four year old Craftsman 21 HP Briggs Platinum single cyl engine that I just replaced the HG on it. Mine separated in the same place as the one you have shown us. Apparently very common on Briggs engines.

 

[Colt45ws]

Okay. Ill make sure I check oil before each use. If you pulled the dipstick while it was running I bet it would be pretty obvious as well with a ton of blowby.
I bet sending the heads to a race shop and getting them o-ring'd would fix it forever. Might be prohibitively expensive though.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Okay. Ill make sure I check oil before each use. If you pulled the dipstick while it was running I bet it would be pretty obvious as well with a ton of blowby.
I bet sending the heads to a race shop and getting them o-ring'd would fix it forever. Might be prohibitively expensive though.


The quality of the HG on these Briggs engines must be poor.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: tig1


The quality of the HG on these Briggs engines must be poor.


They are. The head gaskets on flat head engines are much better material. The main issue I think is the lack of a bolt in that area reducing the clamping force onto the gasket. Similar to the issue with Ford 6.0 diesels. Even the Kohler Command head gaskets have a ring around the cylinder part to strengthen it.

 

[Colt45ws]

I did some looking around on here, on I found a post by someone suggesting too hot spark plugs may cause them to fail, or, at least speed up the process. Implying any pinging or predetonation will cause them to fail. Which makes sense, because that would be a big pressure spike in the cylinder, and will find any weak spot. Im currently running out the last of the regular fuel and will switch to premium from now on to try to help on that front.

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: NH73

Wheres the Kawasaki twin cylinder engines? Like the FRs and FXs.


The engines I didn't mention are middle of the road. I don't love them nor hate them. Some of the earlier Kawi Twins are great engines, but I've seen quite a few newer Kawasaki twins that burn a ton of oil due to faulty piston rings, leading to low oil, thrown rods, etc. I've seen a few defects like plastic cam gears shearing on John Deere tractors with liquid cooled engines. Are they good engines? Sure, but they are pretty comparable to the Kohler Command Twins in my opinion. I wouldn't pay a premium for the Kawasaki over the Kohler, and I find Kohler parts to be cheaper and easier to find.


Back in 2012, in bought a new lawn mower. I picked the Gravely ZT XL 48. I first decided I liked the Ariens Zoom XL. But went with its cousin, because of the Kawasaki FR engine. I paid more for the Gravely than what the Ariens cost. You said you wouldn't pay a premium for the Kawasaki over the Kohler, but you also listed the Kohler Courage as your most disliked, so I guess I choose a middle of your road engine over a disliked one.

 

[Audioquest]

I've owned 2-cycle Lawn Boys, B&S, Tecumseh. Nothing has performed better, been as reliable and lasted as long as my Hondas. Nothing.