Car Manufactures and Death Valley, CA

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Quote:
As if torture-testing cars in the nation's hottest place wasn't enough, Lee Foster had to worry about spies.

Lots of them.

Foster was leading a team of engineers from South Korean automaker Kia putting disguised cars through the most grueling tests imaginable. All the while, they had to fend off a legion of car paparazzi [censored]-bent on grabbing shots of vehicles that hadn't yet been shown publicly.

The cat-and-mouse game plays out all summer in Death Valley National Park, where the temperature was the highest in the USA on all but three days last month. The destination's scorching conditions draw automotive teams from around the world to see whether their latest engines, transmissions and air conditioners can take the heat.


Quote:
"Death Valley is the mecca for car testers," Foster says.

The Kias were tested against peers, a new Scion xB for the sports crossover, and a Toyota 4Runner and a Dodge Durango for the SUVs.

As soon as they hit the road, it was clear the Kia team wasn't alone. In summer, about the only traffic around the desolate landscape here are black-clad manufacturers' prototypes being tested in hot weather. The Kia engineers didn't have much trouble spotting teams from Hyundai, General Motors, Volkswagen, even a heavy-duty tractor-trailer. Only one car, escorted by a Subaru, remained a mystery.

The best testing comes in the afternoon. "We only have five to six hours a day when we have good heat," Foster says.


Quote:
The team ran two tests. In one, the SUVs hauled various heavy loads up a hill while temperature readings were taken. In the other, readings were taken in the cabin of the baking crossover and its rival as their air conditioners gradually cooled them.

The SUVs, meanwhile, pounded up and down the 5,000-foot grade from the Devil's Cornfield, an odd Death Valley landmark near Stovepipe, to the top of Townes Pass. They towed trailers weighing as much as 7,000 pounds in a brutal demonstration of their ability to handle heat and loads.

That's the secret of Death Valley, Foster says. It's not just the heat: It's the hills. Engineers pay careful attention to temperatures of transmission fluid and engine oil all the way up
.


http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=3559056&page=1

If a vehicle is doing well at Death Valley in summer running up and down fairly steep hills with recommended oil weght, there is nowhere in US is tougher than that.

This article is a little old, but its fundamentals are still valid today.
 
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Heat is only one part of the testing. I'd say extreme cold is a lot more difficult to deal with. Plus in my experience some people put off things like oil changes, fluid checks and over all inspections in extreme cold weather.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
What about other countries with hot climates that spec a thicker oil?

I think car manufactures do their tests in some countries they do business with.

Let say in Germany drivers on some Autobahn section can get to triple digit speed while engine is turning at or near redline. This may elevate oil temperature up to a point that oil weight recommended in US will not protect the engine as well.

Based on the local test results car manufactures may recommend thicker oil.

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Heat is only one part of the testing. I'd say extreme cold is a lot more difficult to deal with. Plus in my experience some people put off things like oil changes, fluid checks and over all inspections in extreme cold weather.


Car manufactures do cold weather test in International Falls northeast of Minnesota near to Canada border, in winter months.

Quote:
When the thermometer drops to extreme lows in International Falls, it's not unusual to see caravans of strange looking cars and trucks logging test miles in the cold.

Some vehicles are fresh from the drawing board. They're often camouflaged or disguised. There might be duct tape over the logo, or cloth tarps covering identifying features.


http://www.mprnews.org/story/2009/01/15/coldwxtesting
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
What about other countries with hot climates that spec a thicker oil?

I think car manufactures do their tests in some countries they do business with.

Let say in Germany drivers on some Autobahn section can get to triple digit speed while engine is turning at or near redline. This may elevate oil temperature up to a point that oil weight recommended in US will not protect the engine as well.

Based on the local test results car manufactures may recommend thicker oil.


To be fair, I specifically mentioned climate.. As in Australians running an A3/ B4 10w40 in a car that specifically calls for say a xw20 in the US. The Toyota V6 4.0 comes to mind.

A turbo charged Audi with potentially a 6+ quart sump and oil cooler screaming down the autobahn isn't the same thing. Even then, they are normally spec'd for an A3/B4 xxw30 or xxw40 carrying the VW approval.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
What about other countries with hot climates that spec a thicker oil?

I think car manufactures do their tests in some countries they do business with.

Let say in Germany drivers on some Autobahn section can get to triple digit speed while engine is turning at or near redline. This may elevate oil temperature up to a point that oil weight recommended in US will not protect the engine as well.

Based on the local test results car manufactures may recommend thicker oil.

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
To be fair, I specifically mentioned climate.. As in Australians running an A3/ B4 10w40 in a car that specifically calls for say a xw20 in the US. The Toyota V6 4.0 comes to mind.

A turbo charged Audi with potentially a 6+ quart sump and oil cooler screaming down the autobahn isn't the same thing. Even then, they are normally spec'd for an A3/B4 xxw30 or xxw40 carrying the VW approval.

I think Death Valley in summer is as hot as anywhere on earth, Australia desert is much hotter than Death Valley.

Car manufactures test their cars at places where they sell in good volume, depends of the local driving conditions(weather, speed ...) the result they obtain for that local may tell them to recommend certain oil weight.

Australia has fairly narrow temperature range in the whole country/continent so car manufacture may recommend a specific oil grade for the drivers there.

America has very wide temperature range, above 110F in some place for 3-4 months in summer and other area can be as low as minus 20-30 in winter, but the car and engine speed is fairly low so after all the summer/winter test results they came up with the oil grade for U.S.
 
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I drove through the death valley a lot of times, and saw bunch of manufacturers testing cars. However, nowhere near as in Colorado, especially Pikes Peak.
While the Death Valley provides really good check when it comes to engines and high temperatures, the real test for cooling system is testing it above 10,000ft where you have dual problem:
1. At 10,000ft you have 30% loss of power in naturally aspirated engines that still have to pull same weight.
2. Because of drop in air density, cooling system cannot transfer heat to surrounding as fast as it would on sea level or in death valley that is below sea level and where air pressure is slightly above 14.7 and where air density is thicker.

Also Colorado provides unique opportunity in winter, where a lot of cars overheat because of above issues while temperature outside is in teens. So, you can test a lot of parameters (including loss of power in NA engines since Pikes Peak is accessible all the way to the top at 14.112ft) and managing that loss in turbo engines that are much less susceptible to power loss due to forced intake.
Also, you can test tires since tire compound is behaving differently above 10,000ft, same as asphalt behaves differently.
How difficult PikesPeak is? I drove my wife's Tiguan on I8 between Phoenix and San Diego during that heat wave in June 2013. Temperature outside was 118 degrees. I kept speed constantly above 100mph, and temperature needle was stubbornly in middle.
I drove pushed same car to Pikes Peak when temperature was 39 at base, and -11 at top, and when I reach top (after 18 miles) needle went beyond middle, so I left car on while het was on MAX and vent on MAX to cool off engine as fast as possible.
 
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Originally Posted By: tom slick
Kia and Honda both have have facilities near Mojave, Calif.


Yup, they love the desert and for a long time the paparazzi left the place(s) alone. It's not easy to get to, into, or around.

But then Kia started building real nice cars and Honda started building good SUV's and all [censored] broke loose.

I still love the idea of the paid test drivers with a cooler in the back seat with iced water cruising around out there on test mode while the paparazzi try to sneak in and around like snipers with cameras getting their livers cooked
laugh.gif
 
With the extreme heat and dust, I wonder how many automakers other than Ford test in the Middle East. The ambient here yesterday was 127 F at 16:00.
 
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
With the extreme heat and dust, I wonder how many automakers other than Ford test in the Middle East. The ambient here yesterday was 127 F at 16:00.

They all do!
As well as in most norther parts of Norway, Finland etc.
 
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I wonder if the altitude (below sea level) plays a part in selecting Death Valley?

The higher pressure should make cooling easier. But it will result in different airflow than almost-as-hot High Desert areas.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
What about other countries with hot climates that spec a thicker oil?

I think car manufactures do their tests in some countries they do business with.

Let say in Germany drivers on some Autobahn section can get to triple digit speed while engine is turning at or near redline. This may elevate oil temperature up to a point that oil weight recommended in US will not protect the engine as well.

Based on the local test results car manufactures may recommend thicker oil.

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
To be fair, I specifically mentioned climate.. As in Australians running an A3/ B4 10w40 in a car that specifically calls for say a xw20 in the US. The Toyota V6 4.0 comes to mind.

A turbo charged Audi with potentially a 6+ quart sump and oil cooler screaming down the autobahn isn't the same thing. Even then, they are normally spec'd for an A3/B4 xxw30 or xxw40 carrying the VW approval.

I think Death Valley in summer is as hot as anywhere on earth, Australia desert is much hotter than Death Valley.

Car manufactures test their cars at places where they sell in good volume, depends of the local driving conditions(weather, speed ...) the result they obtain for that local may tell them to recommend certain oil weight.

Australia has fairly narrow temperature range in the whole country/continent so car manufacture may recommend a specific oil grade for the drivers there.

America has very wide temperature range, above 110F in some place for 3-4 months in summer and other area can be as low as minus 20-30 in winter, but the car and engine speed is fairly low so after all the summer/winter test results they came up with the oil grade for U.S.


This still doesn't explain why an engine there is spec'd for a thicker oil.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Australia has fairly narrow temperature range in the whole country/continent so car manufacture may recommend a specific oil grade for the drivers there.

America has very wide temperature range, above 110F in some place for 3-4 months in summer and other area can be as low as minus 20-30 in winter, but the car and engine speed is fairly low so after all the summer/winter test results they came up with the oil grade for U.S.


Really ?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victori...3f75-1469006696

Quote:
Australia is the ideal testing ground for the world.

Our government is stable, and our continent can offer everything from alpine snow to baking deserts and tropical heat and rain, with roads from the smoothest freeways to the dustiest outback tracks to test the mettle of new models before they’re sold to the public.


Hottest 123.3F
Coldest -10F

As to the dustiest outback roads, you can drive 100s of miles on dirt, often corrugated, as Ford found when they brought the falcon to Oz in the 60s and the shock towers caved in.

edit...this OCI, both my cars have started at 18F, and 93F
 
Also, the 4.0 found in various 2006 and older Jeeps spec's a 5/15w40 (depending on the temperature) in the UK while in the US it specs a 5/10w30.

Their temps are pretty dang close to ours.
 
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