Purolator round holes, returning?

[jongies3]

Today at work I noticed that our most popular filter, Performax PO-173 (Puro Classic clones) had round holes in the center tube in place of the louvers that were there forever. I was kinda befuddled about this so I took a couple pics, don't know how to read date codes so maybe someone can elaborate on when this was made. All of our new 173's we got are like this, I can't imagine the warehouse having a whole bunch of old filters laying around for a few years ago considering they ship them to shops all over the place weekly. Maybe Purolator's going back to the round holes instead of louvers? I will check next week on our new shipment of filters to see if more are like this now that my curiosity is up.

I don't care either way, it just kind of struck me as odd to see them again after having been gone for quite some time now. Here's the pics I took:

 

[Lubener]

My Puro's always had round holes.

 

[ZeeOSix]

They are old ... date code = Sep 2, 2014.

 

[Sayjac]

EDIT. ZEE burning the midnight oil out there beat me to it.

 

[53' Stude]

Yeah, late 2015 and 2016 Puro jobber filters have "louvers"

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
EDIT. ZEE burning the midnight oil out there beat me to it.


Not by much ... less than 1 min since the time stamps were the same.

 

[crazyoildude]

That would be a good thing if they went back to the reliable round holes instead of the restrictive looking little louvers but we stopped using them when all the tearing and quality issues surfaced, we dropped them like a hot potato and went with Wix but after i sold the shop the new owner stopped using wix also and is now using a quality looking Chinese filter that has a nice build quality almost as nice as the Hyundai filter...

Im through with them for my own vehicles im currently using the Ultra and will probably continue unless their quality goes south or they start using louvers.

 

[tig1]

Crazyoildude, You said "restrictive looking little louvers". Do you really think that filters with louvers have a total flow area less than filters with holes? If you think that way, find a filter with a plastic cage for way more flow area than holes. The MC FL 2017 cartridge filter has the plastic cage and works great. The MC FL 910 I use has louvers and works great.

 

[crazyoildude]

tig... I do not think the flow is as good with louvers as it is with the larger round holes especially at zero degrees even if they get the louvers right and have them opened all the way.. I think the louvers slow down the oil so that the cheap media don't tear as easily although i think there are some torn media even with those little slits... There is no real way to know how often oil filters are in bypass so louvers may appear to be ok when in my book they are not.. There may be more flow area but thicker oil can not get through so easily in my opinion. Also GM prefers the plastic cage "e core" so they do have more flow and is in bypass a lot less. I asked a number of GM techs that we invite to our engine rebuilding seminars that i still attend even know i sold my engine shop. If they would make the louvers bigger then maybe but they are really small.
Also the motorcraft you are talking about is a cheap purolater i used to use the 820-s but im changing to the fram ultra XG-2 for obvious reasons

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I do not think the flow is as good with louvers as it is with the larger round holes especially at zero degrees even if they get the louvers right and have them opened all the way.


If the total flow area greater with louvers, then the flow will be better, which also means the delta-p created by the center tube will be less. This is basic logic is true regardless of the shape of the holes, louver, or whatever. More flow area means easier flow and less delta-p.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I think the louvers slow down the oil so that the cheap media don't tear as easily ...


If there are many more louvers than holes, and IF the louvers are opened up well, then that helps more evenly distribute the oil flow through the center tube. It will also tend to 'slow down' the oil flow velocity a little bit, but as we have already seen there has been torn media even with a louvered center tube. IMO, tearing media is caused more from brittle spread out pleats than the design of the center tube.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
There may be more flow area but thicker oil can not get through so easily in my opinion.


If there is more oil flow area, then by default thicker oil will flow better (and have less delta-p across the center tube) because of the increase total flow area, as compared to less flow area. That's just basic fluid dynamics.

The only thing louvers rightly so get grief about is IF they are NOT opened up adequately, which has been shown here that can happen.

 

[Sayjac]

Let's see, Deja vu....all over again, Pete and repeat. How about....

 

[SilverC6]

Louvers are good.

They are a design improvement.

They orient flow. Oil flow is more laminar with the louvers.

End of story.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Louvers are good.

They are a design improvement.

They orient flow. Oil flow is more laminar with the louvers.

End of story.


Except for half of the flow that is shot up towards the dome end and has to make a 180 turn to got out the filter and in to the engine. And the streams that face each other and collide as they enter the center tube. I could maybe see 'smoother flow' in a center tube if all the louvers pointed down towards the base end of the filter, but many filters are made with opposite facing louver slits.

Basically, it doesn't really matter if the flow is laminar (which I doubt it is anyway) or turbulent. The oil pump forces it all through the filter due to it's positive displacement characteristics. The delta-p difference between laminar and turbulent flow inside the filter is probably way less than even 1 PSI.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Louvers are good.

They are a design improvement.

They orient flow. Oil flow is more laminar with the louvers.

End of story.


Laminar? I think the word your looking for is turbulent as the flow is entering the center tube flowing in opposite directions.

 

[crazyoildude]

I don't usually disagree with you but those super small holes that may not even be opened up all the way will shear the oil and slow it down enough to put the filter in bypass if all is working well...

GM techs all seem to agree when asked at our engine rebuilding meetings that the reason GM went with e core was to make sure the engines were getting the correct amount of filtered oil... Im leery with those louvers and it seems Fram is using them in some of their filters which i will be posting pictures of.. I will have to send the pictures to Car51 so he can post them. I asked Motorking and he said they were not going with louvers but i have pictures and motorking did not get back to me when asked about it. If fram is going to be using louvers in the ultra im going with a good chinese filter a lot of the shops are using.
Bottom line too much drama with the louver movement in my opinion so no louvers for me.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I say, One Filter, One OCI!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I don't usually disagree with you but those super small holes that may not even be opened up all the way will shear the oil and slow it down enough to put the filter in bypass if all is working well...


Like said earlier, it all boils down to the total flow area of the center tube.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
GM techs all seem to agree when asked at our engine rebuilding meetings that the reason GM went with e core was to make sure the engines were getting the correct amount of filtered oil.


There is no reason a filter needs a wide open cage like an eCore in order to get adequate oil flow. eCore filers are more about cheaper manufacturing and supposedly using materials - like a plastic center core - to make them more "e", which means "ecological". I can't see that, but that's their angle.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Im leery with those louvers and it seems Fram is using them in some of their filters which i will be posting pictures of.. I will have to send the pictures to Car51 so he can post them. I asked Motorking and he said they were not going with louvers but i have pictures and motorking did not get back to me when asked about it. If fram is going to be using louvers in the ultra im going with a good chinese filter a lot of the shops are using.


As mentioned many times, if the louvers are made right (the main point) they will actually flow better than the old traditional center tubes with holes.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Bottom line too much drama with the louver movement in my opinion so no louvers for me.


Let me guess who's the leader of the drama fest ...

If you ever have to use a filter with louvers, just make sure to look down the center tube with a flashlight and verify they are opened up well. Every filter should be inspected, regardless of the design because sometimes they come off the manufacturing line not perfect.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I say, One Filter, One OCI!

But does it have holes or louvers ... ?

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
...GM techs all seem to agree when asked at our engine rebuilding meetings that the reason GM went with e core was to make sure the engines were getting the correct amount of filtered oil..

And yet there's TSB by GM posted HERE warning against the use of ecores even the newest type with separate dome bypass, in some applications. So much for the 'getting the right amount of oil' hearsay. GM techs install what GM tells them to install, period. And I'll bet that most of the experienced and in the know GM techs would prefer the classic metal endcap type ACDelco over an ecore, hands down. You now appear very desperate using the ecore design in your vain attempts to make any kind of point, bogus or otherwise about oil flow with a louvered centertube design.

And if you ever do reach your pal Jay, you should ask him why the Mobil 1 EP oil filter, a top of the line extended oci filter made by 'Champ now Fram Filtration' uses a louvered center tube design and has for some time. Seems to me one could conclude if there was anything at all questionable with a louvered design Fram would have already changed it in one of their top of line filters at the very least. They haven't.

So, much as Champ and Clarcor/Baldwin/Hastings and others including some OEM have been successfully using a louvered centertube for some time, others like M&H Puro have followed. And as with any filter purchase, best practice says to inspect the filter prior to purchase including by not limited to properly formed louvers.

 

[rrounds]

Here is what Donaldson says about the center tube
"Inner Liner
Donaldson’s spiral wound construction
allows more flow area without
compromising the collapse strength.
Sharp edges on holes of competitive
tubes can cause media to tear during
pleat movement.
Donaldson’s louver design has hundreds
more flow openings then competitors.
The louvers are pushed in towards the
inner tube, the surface of which media
come in contact with is smooth and pleat
tip wear is eliminated."
https://www.donaldson.com/content/dam/do...oduct-Guide.pdf
I think its on page 6 or 7 on the pdf

ROD