Fast charging system for electric bus

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Originally Posted By: spackard
you apparently don't know Los Angeles as well as I do.
Metro busses are natural gas powered, not diesel powered.
Pollution-wise, they are not bad to be behind.
https://www.metro.net/news/simple_pr/metro-retires-last-diesel-bus/
"today [2011] has 2,221 CNG buses, one electric and six gasoline-electric hybrid buses in its fleet."

I didn't know LA retired Diesel Bus some years ago. Most cities in Orange County are still operate diesel buses, other larger cities around the country are still have diesel buses.

When these current diesel buses are retired they should be replace with battery electrical buses.

Initial cost can be higher but maintenance cost should be lower so the long term ROI should be about 10-15 years, but health benefit is immeasurable.

There is no such thing as "Clean Diesel" as advertised by VW, the true is the cheated diesel polluted the air worse much than gasoline.

Sources of electric can be clean or dirty, depend how much we are willing to pay for it. The cheapest is coal and it is also the dirtiest, and it is phasing out slowly in most western states and the rest of the country is following.
 
If you're so desperate for clean air why does it have to be an electric bus with batteries? You obviously have no clue how it all works, but none the less are parroting this technology as if it were some sort of miracle cure for all transportation problems.
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If you're so desperate for clean air why does it have to be an electric bus with batteries? You obviously have no clue how it all works, but none the less are parroting this technology as if it were some sort of miracle cure for all transportation problems.

To answer your question, this is the latest news as of today July 18, 2016 from Autoblog.

I have no clue how it all works, and so are people in charge of mass transit in Geneva. They wasted millions in implementing the faster chargers and polluting their air worse than diesel buses these electric buses are replacing.

Quote:
Geneva will add a dozen electric buses to its municipal service after awarding a contract to Switzerland-based ABB to set up a so-called "flash-charging" network.

The buses will be used for a route that connects Geneva's airport with a new suburb called Praille-Acacias-Vernet, which will have about 11,000 residential units as well as offices housing about 11,000 workers. The line is estimated to serve more than 10,000 passengers a day, and will include 13 "flash-charging" stations. At each station, the bus will recharge for 15 seconds, and the 600-kilowatt blast (five times what the Tesla Superchargers deploy) will supply enough energy to get the bus to the next station. At the end of the line, the buses, which will run approximately every 10 minutes, can be recharged in about five minutes via the flash chargers.

Once running, the project will cut carbon dioxide emissions by as much as 1,000 tons per year compared to diesel buses.


http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/18/genevas-new-flash-charge-electric-buses-refuel-in-15-seconds/

The reduction in carbon dioxide emissions is estimated by them, I can't prove or disprove their claim. Can you disprove their claim ?


Their implementation of fast chargers for the electric bus is about the same as I posted few days ago. As the bus stopped at the bus-stop to load/unload passengers the fast charger will top off the battery with enough juice until the next stop.

Do you now see that I am not parroting anything, I just read the first report about fast charging innovative few days ago and think about how to implement it to reduce harmful emission from diesel bus. And I think you saw the list of the 10 worse air pollution cities in U.S. ? California has 6 cities in the list and the worst 4 cities.

If you live in or near the worst smog city, don't you want cleaner air like everyone else who lives there ?


Another source about that same fast charger and electric bus in Geneva.

Quote:
ABB has been awarded orders totaling more than $16 million by Transports Publics Genevois (TPG), Geneva’s public transport operator, and Swiss bus manufacturer HESS, to provide flash charging and on-board electric vehicle technology for 12 TOSA (Trolleybus Optimisation Système Alimentation) fully electric buses (e-buses) which will run on Line 23, connecting Geneva’s airport with suburban Geneva. The e-buses can help save as much as 1,000 tons of carbon dioxide per year, when compared with existing diesel buses.

ABB will deliver and deploy 13 flash-charging stations along an urban transit bus route, as well as three terminal and four depot feeding stations. This will be the world’s fastest flash-charging connection technology taking less than 1 second to connect the bus to the charging point. The onboard batteries can then be charged in 15 seconds with a 600-kilowatt boost of power at the bus stop. A further 4 to 5 minute charge at the terminus at the end of the line enables a full recharge of the batteries. The innovative technology was developed by ABB engineers in Switzerland.
 
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A quick look says that 22.38lb of CO2 is generated per gallon of D2. 1,000T of CO2 is generated from 89,366 gallons of diesel. [Of course I see that it says "up to" and not "will save".]

This indicates an all-diesel bus gets 2.75mpg, and a hybrid bus 4mpg; NYC's conversion to hybrid would save 50,000 gallons of diesel per bus per year. Not sure how to compare/contrast that with what Geneva is doing.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR


Once running, the project will cut carbon dioxide emissions by as much as 1,000 tons per year compared to diesel buses.


I don't doubt it, since it will directly remove the pollution of the diesels and replace it with electricity that is produced somewhere other than Switzerland and imported.

Quote:
The Swiss government has set a target to cut fossil fuel use 20% by the year 2020[3] Most of the energy produced within Switzerland is renewable from Hydropower and biomass. However this only accounts for around 15% of total overall energy consumption as the other 85% of energy used is imported, mostly derived from fossil fuels and nuclear power.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Switzerland

They import 85% of their hydro.

What is strange is that they actually generate a lot of power via hydro electric, and export almost all of it, while importing "dirty" power from their neighbours.....
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Seems rather nonsensical
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Quote:
A study published in 2009 showed that the emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) due to the electricity consumed in Switzerland (total: 5.7 millions of tonnes) are seven times higher than the emissions of carbon dioxide due to the electricity produced in Switzerland (total: 0.8 millions of tonnes).[10]

The study also showed that the production in Switzerland (64.6 TWh) is similar to the amount of electricity consumed in the country (63.7 TWh).[10] Overall, Switzerland export 7.6 TWh and import 6.8 TWh; but, in terms of emissions of carbon dioxide, Switzerland export "clean" electricity causing emissions of 0.1 millions of tonnes of CO2 and import "dirty" electricity causing emissions of 5 millions of tonnes of CO2.[10]

The electricity produced in Switzerland generated about 14 grammes of CO2 per kilowatt hour. The electricity consumed in Switzerland generated about 100 grammes of CO2 per kilowatt hour.


That's a whole lot of bizarre.
 
The local government can only do so much to clean up the air in their area. Geneva city officials have authority to replace diesel buses with electrical buses in their city, they have the money to do that and to install fast chargers.

Do the Geneva city officials have the authority to keep clean electric in the country ? Do they have the authority to allow import only clean power ?

If you read the very first post of this thread you will see that my thinking of implementing this fast chargers is about the same as how they do it in Geneva. And many posters think that was dumb idea, probably Geneva people are dumb too.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Do the Geneva city officials have the authority to keep clean electric in the country ? Do they have the authority to allow import only clean power ?


I would imagine they would have control over their electricity infrastructure, yes. There must be financial motivation for selling their power, just to import even more of it that was generated using far dirtier means. It would seem, at face value, that the biggest thing they could do to reduce their CO2 emissions would be to stop importing power and start using their own
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If you read the very first post of this thread you will see that my thinking of implementing this fast chargers is about the same as how they do it in Geneva. And many posters think that was dumb idea, probably Geneva people are dumb too.


I think the concerns expressed about the effects this will have on battery life are well founded. It (this fast charging) is a great theory, however it will be interesting to see how it plays out in application regarding that point. If you remove fossil fuels from the picture (charge it via power generated via nuke for example) then you are able, at least in part, to disengage the argument about energy density (about oil/gas/diesel/coal having far more density than a battery and burning it directly being more efficient), since nuclear power is massively more dense than fossil fuels and there are no combustion byproducts produced when extracting electricity from it. It doesn't improve the performance of batteries of course, but it does mean there isn't any pollution generated in charging them either; there are quite literally zero emissions going back as far as the generation. You could still factor in the mining of the uranium, but again, it is something that is massively more energy dense than burning fossil fuels, so I believe it still wins out there. IMHO of course.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Do the Geneva city officials have the authority to keep clean electric in the country ? Do they have the authority to allow import only clean power ?


Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I would imagine they would have control over their electricity infrastructure, yes. There must be financial motivation for selling their power, just to import even more of it that was generated using far dirtier means. It would seem, at face value, that the biggest thing they could do to reduce their CO2 emissions would be to stop importing power and start using their own
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I don't think the city officials have any say about import/export of anything, they can only do something for their city, nothing outside city boundary is under their control. Only the country officials, in this case Switzerland government officials may have some voices.

I don't know the exact import/export electricity condition in Switzerland, my guess is that a power plant near the border with another country generates more power than immediate area within the country can consume, so they export the excess to neighboring country. Other area of the country consumes much more than local power plant can produce so they import what they need, probably from another country. I think one of the problem with electricity is power lost in transmission line, also balancing supply and demand is difficult too, until they deploy some type of storage to be use later.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
California has most cities in the worst 10 cities in US in term of pollution, 6 of the top 7 are California cities in 2016, according to Webmd.com
No. 7: Modesto-Merced, CA
No. 6: Sacramento-Roseville, CA
No. 5: Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ
No. 4: Fresno-Madera, CA
No. 3: Visalia, CA
No. 2: Bakersfield, CA
No. 1: Los Angeles, CA

http://www.webmd.com/asthma/ss/slideshow-worst-smog-cities

You guys are saying that is the way it is, we should not do anything to combat the problem ? Electric bus is a bad solution, diesel engines are better for Californian ?
What about all the pollution blowing in from China?
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
What kind of a bus goes 30 miles on 120 gallons of fuel? More smoke and mirrors nothing else can be expected from those tax money seeking parasites.
People are easy to fool these days,
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
California has most cities in the worst 10 cities in US in term of pollution, 6 of the top 7 are California cities in 2016, according to Webmd.com
No. 7: Modesto-Merced, CA
No. 6: Sacramento-Roseville, CA
No. 5: Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ
No. 4: Fresno-Madera, CA
No. 3: Visalia, CA
No. 2: Bakersfield, CA
No. 1: Los Angeles, CA

http://www.webmd.com/asthma/ss/slideshow-worst-smog-cities

You guys are saying that is the way it is, we should not do anything to combat the problem ? Electric bus is a bad solution, diesel engines are better for Californian ?

Originally Posted By: CT8
What about all the pollution blowing in from China?

Pollution in Los Angeles basin is locally produced. I love to point finger to someone/somewhere but I can't this time.

There are 7 oil refineries southwest of LA city, we usually have late afternoon breeze from the Pacific Ocean, there are mountain ranges north and east of LA basin, these mountains block the wind and pollution from flowing to the east. So the pollution just hang around the LA basin, until we have some rain(few days a year) then all these pollution will be washed into the sea.

Oil refineries in So Cal, near Los Angeles:

Tesoro (Carson)
Chevron (El Segundo)
Tesoro (Wilmington)
ExxonMobil (Torrance)
Valero (Wilmington)
Alon (Paramount)
Phillips 66 (Wilmington)
 
You easily dismiss posted scientific studies, research, etc. and use what corrupt officials around the globe do in a mass, agenda driven game as proof of your point. Yes I stand by my earlier statement that you have no clue how it all works.


As for the overkill's question why Switzerland is selling their clean energy and buying dirty one, it's most likely for the massive carbon credits it generates. EUs carbon trading is quite a shell game, read up on it and lots of things will make sense.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You easily dismiss posted scientific studies, research, etc. and use what corrupt officials around the globe do in a mass, agenda driven game as proof of your point. Yes I stand by my earlier statement that you have no clue how it all works.

As for the overkill's question why Switzerland is selling their clean energy and buying dirty one, it's most likely for the massive carbon credits it generates. EUs carbon trading is quite a shell game, read up on it and lots of things will make sense.

Which scientific studies and research are you talking about ? Electric bus pollutes more than diesel bus ? A ZEV is dirtier than a cheated diesel VW Passat ?

So you can prove that the 1000 tons CO2 reduction from switching diesel buses to electric buses is bogus ?

Every city, county, state, country official in the world are corrupt if they do things that you don't agree ?

Talking about corrupting officials, when do you present the evidences ?

Talk is cheap, show me any evidence that you can dig up anywhere that these officials are corrupt. If you can't then you should shut your mouth.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

I don't think the city officials have any say about import/export of anything


I was thinking the government (federal) not locally. IE, that's a policy that is country-wide (the import/export thing). They would have control over it.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ



As for the overkill's question why Switzerland is selling their clean energy and buying dirty one, it's most likely for the massive carbon credits it generates. EUs carbon trading is quite a shell game, read up on it and lots of things will make sense.


So it is financially motivated as per my posit, thank you for confirming
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