Amsoil "TWIN V" Still A Group IV ??

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apollomaker

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Hiya All -- new Harley Fat Bob and getting ready for switch over to synthetic
but want to go to a pure Group IV but without ester. Have not used Amsoil for a
long time so was wondering if their 20W50 TWIN V oil is what I am looking for or not??

Comments please!!! Thanks, Bob
 
I have no input other than I wish people could stop saying 'switch over.' Its not a switch.
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I have no input other than I wish people could stop saying 'switch over.' Its not a switch.


Please explain...
 
Originally Posted By: apollomaker
Hiya All -- new Harley Fat Bob and getting ready for switch over to synthetic
but want to go to a pure Group IV but without ester. Have not used Amsoil for a
long time so was wondering if their 20W50 TWIN V oil is what I am looking for or not??

Comments please!!! Thanks, Bob


Please don't take this personally. But reading your request is interesting - because you basically request a straight up formulation as if you have some knowledge, but the request speaks to the fact that you don't really know. It happens, common in the world of lubrication.

There is no such oil made. I mean a pure Group anything. And as noted, not pure Group IV. No pure Group V either. And it's not something you really want anyway. Such lubricants wouldn't necessarily be very good as motor oil, and in the case of pure ester, prohibitively expensive as motor oil.

So to comment, let's get to crux - what is it you are looking for your engine oil?
 
Redline 20w50 it's the best I have run this far. After 30k miles I only wish I had installed it sooner.

Former fill, Amsoil vtwin, twice.

For the same price Redline 1000x over Amsoil.
 
I think what he is asking for is a pure group IV base oil blended oil and not just pure PAO with no additives which is what it appears some people took his request to mean.

Regardless, the responses are mostly still valid. A pure PAO base oil engine oil would be lacking in certain properties and wouldn't be preferable to a PAO & ester blended oil if you want a fully synthetic oil.
 
Originally Posted By: apollomaker
Hiya All -- new Harley Fat Bob and getting ready for switch over to synthetic
but want to go to a pure Group IV but without ester. Have not used Amsoil for a
long time so was wondering if their 20W50 TWIN V oil is what I am looking for or not??

Comments please!!! Thanks, Bob


Spectro claims to use Group IV PAO as the base oil in their Platinum 4 line. But they blend it with ester. PAO and Ester compliment one another very well in a blend, you should want it instead of not wanting it. Also, you need something to keep additives soluble and in suspension since PAO needs help with that. Ester will serve that purpose as well.
 
Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I have no input other than I wish people could stop saying 'switch over.' Its not a switch.


Please explain...


I don't know why it needs to be explained, but are you speaking of the 'switch over' from conventional to synthetic? They can be used interchangeably. I don't know why we need to declare a 'switch over.' You can switch back too if you want.
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I have no input other than I wish people could stop saying 'switch over.' Its not a switch.


Please explain...


I don't know why it needs to be explained, but are you speaking of the 'switch over' from conventional to synthetic? They can be used interchangeably. I don't know why we need to declare a 'switch over.' You can switch back too if you want.


I'll bite. Because it is difficult to use them interchangeably if you do not switch over from one to the other?
21.gif


The guy isn't talking about doing a complete engine flush and gasket replacement. Just changing oils. What would you prefer the nomenclature to be? "Interchange my engine lubricating medium to an alternative chemical structural composition"?

I think "switch over" works just fine to get the point across. Disagree if you like, but I think you are making a big deal over nothing and interpreting implications that just aren't there.
 
"switching over" would be from a multi-grade to a mono-grade like Mobil 1650 @ $4.00 a quart.
PDS
40C 202
100C 19.5
HTHS >5.2
SA 1.4
TBN 12
VI 110
PP -18C
Density .896
Flash 290C !!!

Why pay more for less?
 
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I have no input other than I wish people could stop saying 'switch over.' Its not a switch.


Please explain...


I don't know why it needs to be explained, but are you speaking of the 'switch over' from conventional to synthetic? They can be used interchangeably. I don't know why we need to declare a 'switch over.' You can switch back too if you want.


I'll bite. Because it is difficult to use them interchangeably if you do not switch over from one to the other?
21.gif


The guy isn't talking about doing a complete engine flush and gasket replacement. Just changing oils. What would you prefer the nomenclature to be? "Interchange my engine lubricating medium to an alternative chemical structural composition"?

I think "switch over" works just fine to get the point across. Disagree if you like, but I think you are making a big deal over nothing and interpreting implications that just aren't there.


Yea I'm gonna have to disagree. Its not difficult to interchange them. As a matter of fact there is no difficulty at all. Which was my point. Who said anything about changing gaskets? And I'm making it a big deal? You know you could mix them, alternate conventional and synthetic every other oil change and it won't matter right? Thats why I said there is no switch. If you want to 'bite' and disagree then I don' need to respond.
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Yea I'm gonna have to disagree. Its not difficult to interchange them. As a matter of fact there is no difficulty at all. Which was my point. Who said anything about changing gaskets? And I'm making it a big deal? You know you could mix them, alternate conventional and synthetic every other oil change and it won't matter right? Thats why I said there is no switch. If you want to 'bite' and disagree then I don' need to respond.


I see you didn't comprehend my response at all, so yes we can at least agree that we are done here.
 
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Yea I'm gonna have to disagree. Its not difficult to interchange them. As a matter of fact there is no difficulty at all. Which was my point. Who said anything about changing gaskets? And I'm making it a big deal? You know you could mix them, alternate conventional and synthetic every other oil change and it won't matter right? Thats why I said there is no switch. If you want to 'bite' and disagree then I don' need to respond.


I see you didn't comprehend my response at all, so yes we can at least agree that we are done here.


Good.. You got the last word so that makes you a winner!
 
Can't tell you about Amsoil base oils...that's a secret LOL. My guess on the Amsoil would be it's not a PAO base. Two companies that will tell you outright that they produce straight group 1V, PAO only base oil motorcycle oils are Liqui-Moly and Spectro.
 
Sorry, had to do a second post to finish my thoughts. Had to laugh at folks offended by you using the "switch over" words. Hey, in my mind anytime someone says they are "switching" over to synthetic it tells me they understand the differences between the hydro-cracked crude sold in the US as "full synthetic" and real group 1V and V, PAO and Ester synthetic molecules that the rest of the world requires in the bottle in order to be labeled or sold as a synthetic .
Plain and simple, hydrocracked crude molecules ain't synthetic molecules, they are altered crude molecules.

No need to get into base oil/additive package urinary Olympics with an oil salesman and oil company lab guys. Call Amsoil and ask them what's in their base oil. If enough people do that, they may figure out that some consumers want to know what they are buying....and that many other oil makers are incredibly straight forward about base oil groups, blend percentages and additive packages when you call or write and ask.

If you want an oil with a true synthetic base that has one of the best big twin additive packages available, you can't go wrong with Redline which also has a high percentage of esters in the base blend. Their "Shock Proof" is the best stuff out there for Big Twin secondary and gear boxes. In over 44 years of motorcycling I have yet to find anyone who tried Shock Proof switch back to any other product.

I'm with you. I like the highest PAO base I can find in my motorcycles. PAO quiets mechanical noises significantly, dissipates heat better, and the more stable and consistent synthetic molecules provide superior shear resistance.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
If you want an oil with a true synthetic base that has one of the best big twin additive packages available, you can't go wrong with Redline which also has a high percentage of esters in the base blend. Their "Shock Proof" is the best stuff out there for Big Twin secondary and gear boxes. In over 44 years of motorcycling I have yet to find anyone who tried Shock Proof switch back to any other product.


Thanks to all for the many comments. Seems like I did not phrase my question detailed enough. But some did get my drift. After getting back at my research, long story short, am gonna go with Redline products as long as Harley has no gripes -- just being very conservative relative to Esters and gasket materials. Sure I am being concerned about nothing but after working in the synth lube business a bunch of time, always good to check.

Thanks again to all for the feedback. Bob :)
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Yea I'm gonna have to disagree. Its not difficult to interchange them. As a matter of fact there is no difficulty at all. Which was my point. Who said anything about changing gaskets? And I'm making it a big deal? You know you could mix them, alternate conventional and synthetic every other oil change and it won't matter right? Thats why I said there is no switch. If you want to 'bite' and disagree then I don' need to respond.


I see you didn't comprehend my response at all, so yes we can at least agree that we are done here.


Good.. You got the last word so that makes you a winner!


Have you considered making the switch over to decaf?
 
having been an amsoil for years i feel i was duped as they quietly began substituting good but not as good group III refined CRUDE "synthetic" base oils, prolly in most everything. they quit touting the PAO banner + are tight lipped + evade answering simple questions on what base oils are being used!! you can't go wrong with Redline lubricants IMO, a bit more $$$$ but you know what your getting + paying for. there are still several oil blenders using PAO + Ester or Ester + PAO the best, depending on your budget you can use cheaper but decent oil + if your a DIY changing more often is cheap + easy!! all oils are blends of various types + additives depending on usage + of course price point!!
 
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