How are Primewells?

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Almost every forensic investigation, including the Firestone/Ford investigation, has found that multiple failures, each on their own not terribly significant, combined to create to a catastrophic event. There were some technical issues with the tires. Ford wasn't as conservative with inflation pressures as they probably could have been. The vehicles were tall with high centers of gravity. Many of them likely were driven by people who had moved out of a car and into an SUV for the first time.

The situation was much more complex than an easy "I blame THIS guy" statement can explain.
 
Unsubstantiated conspiracy theories of others notwithstanding . . .

The Firestone/Ford matter did not not involve a single root issue, but two independent prongs that combined may have resulted in the reported roll-overs: tire failures at speed, and a vehicle with a less than optimal center of gravity. I won't speculate on the combination, or whether the horse or the shoe is at fault.

But the NHTSA engineering analysis makes plain that the tires from the Decatur plant failed at excessive rates compared to its peers ("The tread separation failure experience of the focus tires is far worse than that of their peers, especially the Goodyear Wrangler RT/S tires used as original equipment on numerous Ford Explorers") for a variety of reasons, all of which are summarized on Page 29 of the engineering report. The full 85 page report speaks for itself. I only linked the executive summary above.

But my earlier line of comments was not to show that Firestone may have made defective tires over the years. Even the first-tier makers have to issue recalls on occasion.

It was to underscore a broader point regarding vendors and manufacturers as they relate to the sale of "safe tires". I may expand on that point later.

But suffice it to say, a highly reputable national chain and/or a perfectly acting retail vendor does not absolutely guarantee the customer a "safe tire", or somehow make a defective tire more safe.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
But the NHTSA engineering analysis makes plain that the tires from the Decatur plant failed at excessive rates compared to its peers ("The tread separation failure experience of the focus tires is far worse than that of their peers, especially the Goodyear Wrangler RT/S tires used as original equipment on numerous Ford Explorers") for a variety of reasons, all of which are summarized on Page 29 of the engineering report.


Exactly. And that's part of the reason why there isn't a Decatur plant anymore. Different manufacturing processes, an obsolete facility, long and drawn out labor issues...

Goodyear made a tire (to the same Ford spec) that had a failure rate that was a small fraction of the Firestone failure rate.
 
Actually, I'm sure no reputable vendor would KNOWINGLY sell unsafe tires.

The real question is whether the vendor knows, or can know, if a tire it is selling is safe or not. And the only way to really know this is to dissect samples for analysis, and then track the adjustment rate -- after it's in the field (and on your car). The vendor counts on the manufacturers to do that for them, with rigorous QA systems throughout production.

History shows that even the first-tier makers sometimes mess up. Michelin recalled a small batch of their excellent LTX M/S2s last year, and they're the best in the business. But at least they've implemented meaningful QA, as their hard-earned brand reputations are at stake. Michelin fixed things, and quickly.

In the first Chinese tire recall debacle, someone at a no-name Chinese factory decided to omit the gum strips to save a few pennies, and told no one. It's impossible for a retail vendor, whether a 4th generation Mom & Pop, or a national name-brand chain, to catch that. A national chain vendor doesn't immunize a bad tire. And then it's on your car, with your family in it.

Unless it's a Chinese company serious about building real market presence and brand reputation (e.g. Haier), and following rigid QC just like the global majors do, I still have reservations about re-branded or off-branded Chinese tires, regardless of who's selling them. The sweat shops making some of them (and some of their mystery materials suppliers) have no real brand value to lose, just the latest production contract.

For those thinking that generic Chinese production has evolved past that, witness Petco's debacle this week.

Whether Primewell is more like the global majors, with dedicated facilities it tightly controls and first-world QA, or is just a branded clearing house for tires made all over China, I simply do not know. Even if I were really strapped for cash, I would want to know that before I put my family on a set just to save a few dollars.

Meanwhile, a nice set of Generals or Kumhos is only a few dollars more.

There's a reason that cheap and value are different words.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead


Meanwhile, a nice set of Generals or Kumhos is only a few dollars more.


Or Cooper/Starfire (american owned)
 
I last posted in this thread a couple of years back.
We've since bought another winter beater that came on a set of new Primewells.
First, these tires weren't made in China. They were made in Indonesia. Not sure whether that's a plus.
Second, they're decent in all respects save for snow and ice grip, although once you grow accustomed to what they have to offer, they aren't really bad in snow, just not as good as most current AS tires. We did have a pretty severe winter and in a more typical one, I wouldn't have noticed any lack of snow and ice capability.
After 10K of use, these tires look as though they'll last longer than I'd care to use them and they are going to that great tire pile in the sky before next winter.
There are probably better choices at the same price point for those who shop carefully, but a new set of Primewells would beat a worn out set of anything else.
Given that these tires are offered as the value brand from one of the majors, I'd wager that they're made with decent levels of materials suitability as well as quality control.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Given that these tires are offered as the value brand from one of the majors, I'd wager that they're made with decent levels of materials suitability as well as quality control.


Which major is making them? Very curious.
 
Didn't say any major was making them.
I wrote that they were offered as the value brand by one of the majors, as you already know.
A huge proportion of goods at all price levels either contain intermediates from third party suppliers or are made in whole by contract manufacturers and this includes motor vehicles.
Do you think that quality suffers, or do you think that the owners of the brands keep an eye on it to ensure that it doesn't?
Do you think that after finally getting past the Exploder debacle Firestone is anxious to offer junk tires through its stores, or do you think that they've taken care to ensure that these are quality tires, even if they aren't exactly state of the art?
I really don't know and I am very careful in selecting any tire.
We have seen really surprising performance in lower tier tires that have come new on cars that we've bought, though.
 
I had to travel to Florida for a funeral and didn't have time to buy new tires before I left and the belt was sticking out when I arrived. My size is 245/50/16 and I got them for my Xtreme S10. These were the least expensive, plus the only ones I could find in stock in the whole area. I originally had Kumho tires on my S10 and were quiet. These Primewells are noisy once you get on the interstate! I went through a terrible rain storm on the way home and seemed to hold the road very well. I had a front end alignment when I got the tires and they are wearing faster than normal. Not sure what tire I would have purchased had I had time to shop around. The Kumho tires were terrible in rain and light snow, so those were definitely not on my list! I purchased the Kumho three years ago because of price and no other reason.
 
Not exactly Primewell, but I've used Wynstar Phaser R23 before on my Corolla. It was pretty good compare to the worn out Goodyear Invictor (not Integrity) LRR I had before. It wore out in around 50-60k, took a hit in fuel economy, relatively loud, and grip pretty well (actually anything would grip well compare to the Invictor as long as it is not a LRR tire).

I'd rate them 2nd tier tires (vs the 1st rated one), and may buy them again if I'm shopping local. But if you are buying online, there are many better tires to choose from that's about the same price (or within $20), so that makes them less attractive. Even better, if you look for closeout on tirerack, their 1st tiered tires can be had for cheaper than Chinese brand 2nd tiered tires.

Brand and country of origin are poor indicators of how good is a tire.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
FORTY YEARS AGO!


. . . Firestone Wilderness AT, ATX, ATX II?


...was 2% Firestone, 2% Ford, and 96% owner stupidity!

Then how come Toyota who also specified Firestone Wilderness ATs as a tire option on the 4Runner and Tacoma didn't have problems(or they just weren't there)?
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
FORTY YEARS AGO!


. . . Firestone Wilderness AT, ATX, ATX II?


...was 2% Firestone, 2% Ford, and 96% owner stupidity!

Then how come Toyota who also specified Firestone Wilderness ATs as a tire option on the 4Runner and Tacoma didn't have problems(or they just weren't there)?


Because Toyota owners weren't complaining that their full framed Toyota 4 runner and Tacoma rode like the pickups trucks they were, and Toyota never made the completely stupid decision to tell people to deflate their tires to unsafe levels.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
...and Toyota never made the completely stupid decision to tell people to deflate their tires to unsafe levels.


Exactly. The entire debacle was easily preventable with as little as 4 psi more pressure...
 
An increase of 4 psi isn't going to change anything on a tire that had a defective design.

Goodyear made a tire for Ford to the same specs, and didn't have the same end result as Firestone.

How many millions and millions of tires has Firestone recalled over the years?
 
Originally Posted By: earlyre
they are Chinese imports made for Firestone.

that being said, i do see alot of them around these parts.


actually they are made in Indonesia and I bought 4 for my 02 Honda Accord V6. The reason why is b/c my car has 210K miles on it.
Plus I dont do much if any highway miles. I have been told they feather up if you do alot of highway driving.

however they drive 1000x better then what I had on... I had 4 firestones firehawks on and they were very worn...
I used to rotate them my tires on each 2nd oil change and them things had 90K miles on them... The only reason i changed em was b/c one of the tires had a bad spot on them and the car was bobbing up and down and it drove me crazy. As soon as that happened I had to get new tires the next day. Also like i said I rotate my tires often so I think the primewells will be okay.

A guy at work has a set on his truck and he has them about a year and he has no zero problem.

Also I got a very good deal... $268 for 4 tires installed and balanced...

Like I said my car has 210K miles on it.. and anything can happen..

I saw cheaper tires at walmart but didnt get them....


I also have found some posts that said this about them

Primewell tires are a medium grade tire..... They are far superior to Walmarts "Douglas tire" brand, better that Firestone FR-380's, Pep Boys Cornell 1000 tires and are far superior to the cheap cheap Goodyear brands.....

They are a decent medium grade tire that aren't too expensive and will give decent service..... No they are not 80000 mile rated Michelins but then again they don't cost that much...... The Primewell car tires I have dealt with do not have a super aggressive tread pattern so aren't the greatest in a snow storm...... The Primewell truck tires have excellent traction in mud and snow and are a good value.... About 30% less in cost over some top name brands......

Overall Primewell tires are a decent medium grade tire.... If your local tire dealer is offering a decent price on them and you are on a budget then consider them..... I would suggest against the passenger car tire if you live in a state with heavy snow..... But with moderate to no snow then surely consider them....
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
When looking for tires there is only one choice:



If you don't mind selling a few organs to pay for them...


What vlaue do you put on your life?


It's reallly nonsensical that Michelins even get brought up in a tire thread where an OP is concerned about getting a low priced tire.

It's another BIOTOG forum thing. Tell him to buy a Crown Vic while your at it!
 
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Money is tight and I need tires.

I was looking at Firestone's install shop and they have Primewell PZ900 tires for a great price, but I've never heard of them.

Who makes them, and how are they? I've heard mixed reviews, but I trust you guys the most.

Thanks!
smile.gif



Im on my second set for my work van,they last 3 years and Im happy with them
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
When looking for tires there is only one choice:



If you don't mind selling a few organs to pay for them...


What vlaue do you put on your life?


It's reallly nonsensical that Michelins even get brought up in a tire thread where an OP is concerned about getting a low priced tire.

It's another BIOTOG forum thing. Tell him to buy a Crown Vic while your at it!


I want to buy a Subaru and put some Primewells or Ohtsu ... or maybe GT Radial tires on it. I like GT Radial tires - have had good luck.
 
I had these tires for 3 years and decided to write a long term review. I ran over something during a rainstorm while traveling through Florida and ruined the tires on my Xtreme S10. This truck has an odd size (245/50-16) and Primewell tires were the only ones in 100 miles that fit, so that’s why I picked that brand. I drove home to TN and the tires did extremely well in the downpours and was pleased the whole 800 mile trip back. As the tires hit the 1,000 mark, they were getting noisy! The more miles I drove, the louder they got. I sold my S10 three years later and the tires still looked really good, but the noise was awful.

Conclusion: Best handling tire I ever had in heavy rain, but noisiest tire I ever had (after 1,000 miles).
 
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