what non-MC/non-PCMO 10w-30 oils for common sump?

[kmrcstintn]

I have been asked to recommend 'affordable' alternatives to expensive motorcycle oils by several folks who need or choose to use 10w-30 oil; first I explain that my '06 Shadow calls for 10w-40 right before Honda changed over to 10w-30; then I try to explain to stay away from PCMO, the API starburst, the 'energy conserving' or 'resource conserving' on the label due to ingredients that might promote clutch slippage; I explain the concept of HDEO 10w-30 not having the api starburst nor the resource/energy conserving language and that I might 'experiment' with an HDEO 10w-30 for a short OCI if my bike called for it; the usual 'I've used brand XYZ car oil in my bike and nothing bad happened' person chimes in...then I ask about viscosity and explain about 40wt & 50wt PCMO doesn't have the same ratings as 30wt PCMO's and alot of folks get confused...so I say to use 10w-30 MC oil to eliminate confusion!

are there 10w-30 HDEO's that are acceptable in bikes with common sumps for folks who need or want to run the stuff? thanks...

 

[KD0AXS]

Rotella T5

 

[BrocLuno]

+1

Alternatively, you can run Chevron Delo 400 15W-40 if your bike calls for 40 in the summer months when temps are higher.

Either works very well in most bikes.

I've been riding bike for over 50 years and have owned dozens of them. On-road, off-road, trials, trail, quads, etc. All worked just fine of Delo 400

Or, you can get even more informed and look at the Allison Transmission list of approved oils for tractors and heavy duty trucks that use one oil for both engine and transmission. They mostly have wet clutches too. So these oils are rated for clutches, gears and engines.

Rotella T5 is one such oil

 

[sunruh]

any hdeo - 15w40 is way Way WAY better than 10w30.
about the only thing worse than 10w30 is 10w40
i have tested delvac 1300, delo 400 le, rotella t and supertech hdeos 15w40
all are way better than any 10w30 you can buy

 

[kmrcstintn]

ok...what I will recommend is the following

if bike under warranty follow owners manual (10w-30 bike oil); if bike not under warranty and want to use 10w-30...Shell Rotella t-5, Chevron Delo XLE synblend, Motorcraft diesel oil

 

[Sealbilly]

Rotella T5 10w30 semi synthetic has no friction modifiers that I'm aware of. Rotella also makes a strait 30wt which would probably hold up in a shared sump better than 10w, maybe, idk.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Sealbilly
Rotella T5 10w30 semi synthetic has no friction modifiers that I'm aware of. Rotella also makes a strait 30wt which would probably hold up in a shared sump better than 10w, maybe, idk.


Problem with a straight 30 is you would have to warm it up for a while before riding, and it will take quite a bit longer to pump through an engine designed for a 10w when cold. You would likely see lots more startup wear versus a 10w30.

 

[sunruh]

not necessarily...depends on ambient temp startup

granted OP is from PA.

imho, if you want a 30wt...pick Castrol Syntec 0w30 the GC (was green then went gold)
when i tested it ... great stuff

normal 10w30 is mountaindew and breaks down fast.

the straight 30wt ive tested is better than all but 1 10w40 ive tested

steve

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted By: Sealbilly
Rotella T5 10w30 semi synthetic has no friction modifiers that I'm aware of.


I make no claim re: FM presence, absence, type, or quantity. Interestingly, and FWIW, every all-fleet or HDEO manufacturer I've talked to who will give me _anything_ more in the way of information than just the standard 'all our oils are the best,' has told me that the additive systems and/or frictional characteristics of their all-fleet/HDEO 10W30s are at least slightly different than that of their 15W40s. None have been able to provide me with exact DFI, SFI, or STI data (the frictional tests of JASO T903).

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted By: sunruh

i have tested delvac 1300, delo 400 le, rotella t and supertech hdeos 15w40
all are way better than any 10w30 you can buy


Would you please elaborate on exactly how they're 'better?'

 

[Sealbilly]

Sunruh and bulwnkl, thanks for sharing those tidbits, I'm kinda new at this oil stuff and am lost sometimes with all the abbreviationsongs. I'm learning a lot, thanks for being kind.

 

[bulwnkl]

Sorry.

DFI = Dynamic Friction characteristic Index
SFI = Static Friction characteristic Index
STI = Stop-Time Index

These are the things which impact clutch hold, slip, durability, and so forth. If you're interested, the JASO T903 (MA, MA1, MA2, MB) document is here:
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1605.pdf

Here are a couple of pages that try to provide more practical explanations of some of this stuff:
https://www.lubrizol.com/MCEO/Spec-Check/JASO-T903-Four-Stroke.html
http://www.mototribology.com/articles/jaso-explained-part-1/

The lubrizol page refers to the 2016 version of the 'JASO MA' standard. I don't recall off-hand whether the mototribology page refers to 2016 or an older revision.

 

[Sealbilly]

Thank you very much.

 

[sunruh]

10w30 and 10w40 and 5w40 shear down to much less than their starting susvis in a shared sump.
some poor 20w50 and 10w50 do as well.

 

[bulwnkl]

Ah. Okay, thanks. I thought you might be referring to something an owner/end user would see in terms of durability performance, mpg, or something like that.

 

[sunruh]

you do, you just dont understand

lack of film strength (ie susvis) will cause cam lobe wear
same goes for gears in the tranny

if you ride a motorcycle with a 1940s car motor...you only need car motor oil.

 

[bulwnkl]

Your last line is ironic; I'll paraphrase-- If you ride a motorcycle with a diesel backhoe motor, you only need a diesel engine oil. ;-)

My experience controverts yours in part, but that's not pertinent to OP, since all you said is that you recommend an oil that shears less in percentage terms. You didn't say you had a viscosity 'floor' you wanted to stay above, although I very nearly drew it out of you there in that last post. If I get the energy and have nothing to do, perhaps I'll start a new thread to discuss this.

 

[DrDave]

I don't understand how you can afford to own the bike but can't afford to buy oil for it.

Dave