Thanks for the feedback. The real question in my head is which weight will be correct. 0w is a no brainer, it's the 30 vs 40 that I'm weighing. My logic says that oil temps are probably going to be cooler in winter and may never even get up to 200 (I just drove from FL to OK, max temp I saw was 204). It seems the 30w might be better since it will be a little thinner at lower temp. Is that correct thinking or am not considering a few more variables?
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F-250/6.7L Diesel in Fairbanks (-40F)
- Thread starter 98LS-WON
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98LS-WON, I hope you're getting paid HUGE money to live somewhere that cold...
Another Canadian company blending, packaging and distributing lubricants is Brandt in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Val-Par label is similar to John Deere. Like Klondike, their synthetic is group III.
My pick for the 6.7L Ford would be Delvac 0w40 CJ-4, because it is available everywhere.
www.brandt.ca
Val-Par label is similar to John Deere. Like Klondike, their synthetic is group III.
My pick for the 6.7L Ford would be Delvac 0w40 CJ-4, because it is available everywhere.
www.brandt.ca
Originally Posted By: 98LS-WON
Thanks for the feedback. The real question in my head is which weight will be correct. 0w is a no brainer, it's the 30 vs 40 that I'm weighing. My logic says that oil temps are probably going to be cooler in winter and may never even get up to 200 (I just drove from FL to OK, max temp I saw was 204). It seems the 30w might be better since it will be a little thinner at lower temp. Is that correct thinking or am not considering a few more variables?
how is the dpf regeneration handled by this engine? if there's no dedicated fuel injector for regens, fuel dilution is an issue for the oil. Also, I find the worst conditions to fill the dpf with soot is when the engine is cold.
I'd go 0w40, to allow for fuel dilution, shearing and because a 40w oil will actually help getting the engine up to temp a bit quicker.
Thanks for the feedback. The real question in my head is which weight will be correct. 0w is a no brainer, it's the 30 vs 40 that I'm weighing. My logic says that oil temps are probably going to be cooler in winter and may never even get up to 200 (I just drove from FL to OK, max temp I saw was 204). It seems the 30w might be better since it will be a little thinner at lower temp. Is that correct thinking or am not considering a few more variables?
how is the dpf regeneration handled by this engine? if there's no dedicated fuel injector for regens, fuel dilution is an issue for the oil. Also, I find the worst conditions to fill the dpf with soot is when the engine is cold.
I'd go 0w40, to allow for fuel dilution, shearing and because a 40w oil will actually help getting the engine up to temp a bit quicker.
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
The Klondike stuff looks good. Says API CJ-4 and specifically mentions current on-highway deisel engines. No gamble to use that, it meets the specs your engine requires for warranty. Either the 0W30 or 0W40 are good oils. Good viscosity index. Use the 0W30 if you need the extra few C in pour point.
The Triton looks good too.
Loks like you have a good selection of oils here, LS. Should start looking at what it will cost you to get these oils and go from there.
Neither of the Klondike oils are registered with the API. And there are no 0W30 CJ-4 oils currently licensed (perhaps the Delvac Product you mentioned above is "suitable for use").
The Klondike stuff looks good. Says API CJ-4 and specifically mentions current on-highway deisel engines. No gamble to use that, it meets the specs your engine requires for warranty. Either the 0W30 or 0W40 are good oils. Good viscosity index. Use the 0W30 if you need the extra few C in pour point.
The Triton looks good too.
Loks like you have a good selection of oils here, LS. Should start looking at what it will cost you to get these oils and go from there.
Neither of the Klondike oils are registered with the API. And there are no 0W30 CJ-4 oils currently licensed (perhaps the Delvac Product you mentioned above is "suitable for use").
One thing to keep in mind, unlike folks in the lower 48, folks in Fairbanks generally have block heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery warmers. Gas or Diesel. One good tough winter cures the procrastinators. 10w30 does work well for those that have the foresight to do things right, also a 5w30 full syn CJ-4. I lived near Fairbanks for 10 years. All the OEM's are factory filling with 10w30 now. GM seems to be holding out.
Folks can throw out all kinds of low pour points they want, but when daytime HIGH temperature is below -50F it doesn't make any difference. And those temps do happen for days. Oil pan warmer cures a lot of ills.
Folks can throw out all kinds of low pour points they want, but when daytime HIGH temperature is below -50F it doesn't make any difference. And those temps do happen for days. Oil pan warmer cures a lot of ills.
98LS-WON
Thread starter
Originally Posted By: hpb
98LS-WON, I hope you're getting paid HUGE money to live somewhere that cold...
I actually took a little bit of a pay cut so I didn't have to move again, I left Active Duty and joined the Alaska Air Natl Guard. I grew up in FL but the cold isn't so bad once you learn how to dress.
98LS-WON, I hope you're getting paid HUGE money to live somewhere that cold...
I actually took a little bit of a pay cut so I didn't have to move again, I left Active Duty and joined the Alaska Air Natl Guard. I grew up in FL but the cold isn't so bad once you learn how to dress.
98LS-WON
Thread starter
I found a 5 gallon bucket of Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 for $109 at Atwoods. From what I've read it seems like it'll do the trick. I just hope I can find it for that price when I get back to AK.
Seems like the Delo 400 LE 5w30 could be up to the task, -60F cold pour point and CJ4 spec'd. Plus it's readily available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Delo-271210470-5W...elo+400+LE+5w30
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=384346
Ive been to Fairbanks one winter in 2005. Coldest city I've ever been too, Twin Cities, Minnesota was nothing in comparison, neither was Buffalo, NY or Billings MT...Fairbanks is crazy cold, but so beautiful.
Good luck, get a oil pan heater and Delo 400 LE 5w30 and you'll be good to go.
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=384346
Ive been to Fairbanks one winter in 2005. Coldest city I've ever been too, Twin Cities, Minnesota was nothing in comparison, neither was Buffalo, NY or Billings MT...Fairbanks is crazy cold, but so beautiful.
Good luck, get a oil pan heater and Delo 400 LE 5w30 and you'll be good to go.
Originally Posted By: dieselfarmboy
Dont most people never shut there diesel off at them temps. Maybe the new ones are much better, but I know the older ones wouldnt start at them temps, and might not even get up to operating temp.
The problem with never shutting them off is related to the smog devices on diesels. The EGR cooler can get soot buildup during extended idling and the DPF needs active regeneration more often, and active regen can be harsh on engines.
Dont most people never shut there diesel off at them temps. Maybe the new ones are much better, but I know the older ones wouldnt start at them temps, and might not even get up to operating temp.
The problem with never shutting them off is related to the smog devices on diesels. The EGR cooler can get soot buildup during extended idling and the DPF needs active regeneration more often, and active regen can be harsh on engines.
The schools don't shut down for the day in the interior unless the daytime high temp is going to be below -50F. The worse I was it was in '82 when the temp dipped to -72F. Most of the winter, most daytime highs hover around -20F to -35F, with overnight lows typically around -40F. And there is the wonderful Ice Fog.... when the moisture in the air freezes and cannot drop due to air density. And Fairbanks, by sitting in a river basin, is the Ice Fog Capitol. Last winter there, the kids wanted to go trick or treating on Halloween. Took them around in my Bronco. They went to door, got goodies, and jumped back in the Bronco for the next house... temp was -32F that night.
It would be stupid to run a diesel from Oct thru April, as there is no need to. I mentioned what the locals do in the interior. My advice is to have a good block heater, oil pan warmer, and battery blanket. Fuel is setup for that weather and is usually #1 diesel with additive already mixed in. But you better keep fuel filters at the ready, as nothing is fool proof, and Murphy's Law will kick in when you least expect it. I would also advise an Arctic Fox inline fuel warmer. Play games with oil all you want, but if one doesn't use common sense methods that have stood the test of time, don't blame anyone because the pickup won't start and has to go in a shop to thaw out. I lived outside of Fairbanks, and the first snow in my area was usually around Labor day on Donnelly Dome, with the first snow on my door step within two weeks after that, and the ice didn't go down the Chena river till end of breakup in May. That is a long stretch of time to run a diesel continuously.
Also, go over the Alaska Tent and Tarp in Fairbanks and have them do a winter front for your pickup. They have the best! Don't settle for some online winter front that they sell down here. Another one of those wise investments you can make. And when it gets really cold, you can see what the infamous "Fairbanks Square Tire" is all about after the vehicle sits overnight. You will think you are riding in Fred Flintstone's car!
It would be stupid to run a diesel from Oct thru April, as there is no need to. I mentioned what the locals do in the interior. My advice is to have a good block heater, oil pan warmer, and battery blanket. Fuel is setup for that weather and is usually #1 diesel with additive already mixed in. But you better keep fuel filters at the ready, as nothing is fool proof, and Murphy's Law will kick in when you least expect it. I would also advise an Arctic Fox inline fuel warmer. Play games with oil all you want, but if one doesn't use common sense methods that have stood the test of time, don't blame anyone because the pickup won't start and has to go in a shop to thaw out. I lived outside of Fairbanks, and the first snow in my area was usually around Labor day on Donnelly Dome, with the first snow on my door step within two weeks after that, and the ice didn't go down the Chena river till end of breakup in May. That is a long stretch of time to run a diesel continuously.
Also, go over the Alaska Tent and Tarp in Fairbanks and have them do a winter front for your pickup. They have the best! Don't settle for some online winter front that they sell down here. Another one of those wise investments you can make. And when it gets really cold, you can see what the infamous "Fairbanks Square Tire" is all about after the vehicle sits overnight. You will think you are riding in Fred Flintstone's car!
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
So, it looks like you want the T6 or JD Plus 50 II.
There's one problem with that. One should check MRV, or at least CCS results, if possible, not pour point. Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 had, at least, some of the best numbers in that regard when they were being published. I can find you a 15w-40 with a pour point below -40. I wouldn't use it in those conditions, though.
TiredTrucker makes an important point. The lubricant in these conditions could very well be the least of one's worries. Gelled fuel and a struggling battery will be worse.
So, it looks like you want the T6 or JD Plus 50 II.
There's one problem with that. One should check MRV, or at least CCS results, if possible, not pour point. Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 had, at least, some of the best numbers in that regard when they were being published. I can find you a 15w-40 with a pour point below -40. I wouldn't use it in those conditions, though.
TiredTrucker makes an important point. The lubricant in these conditions could very well be the least of one's worries. Gelled fuel and a struggling battery will be worse.
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Your dealer misinformed you. Please read page 45 in the link:
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_C...-US_04_2015.pdf
Looks like the dealer knows what the oil recommendation is for normal temps...but definitely FAILED in respect to temps below -20°F/-29°C, where 0w30 or 0w40 is required.
Amsoil makes a 0w40 FWIW, and you may want to investigate: http://www.wolverineheater.com/
None of Amsoil's 0w40 are recommended for CJ-4, they're PCMO/Euro or powersports. It would be nice if they'd make a CJ-4 5w30. (an updated HDD per-se)
Thanks, my oversight....
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Your dealer misinformed you. Please read page 45 in the link:
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_C...-US_04_2015.pdf
Looks like the dealer knows what the oil recommendation is for normal temps...but definitely FAILED in respect to temps below -20°F/-29°C, where 0w30 or 0w40 is required.
Amsoil makes a 0w40 FWIW, and you may want to investigate: http://www.wolverineheater.com/
None of Amsoil's 0w40 are recommended for CJ-4, they're PCMO/Euro or powersports. It would be nice if they'd make a CJ-4 5w30. (an updated HDD per-se)
Thanks, my oversight....
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One thing to keep in mind, unlike folks in the lower 48, folks in Fairbanks generally have block heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery warmers. Gas or Diesel. One good tough winter cures the procrastinators. 10w30 does work well for those that have the foresight to do things right, also a 5w30 full syn CJ-4. I lived near Fairbanks for 10 years. All the OEM's are factory filling with 10w30 now. GM seems to be holding out.
Folks can throw out all kinds of low pour points they want, but when daytime HIGH temperature is below -50F it doesn't make any difference. And those temps do happen for days. Oil pan warmer cures a lot of ills.
Ya, but not every place has HBOs. Just try and find an outlet in a school or business parking lot. We idled our vehicles at intervals throughout the day.
One thing to keep in mind, unlike folks in the lower 48, folks in Fairbanks generally have block heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery warmers. Gas or Diesel. One good tough winter cures the procrastinators. 10w30 does work well for those that have the foresight to do things right, also a 5w30 full syn CJ-4. I lived near Fairbanks for 10 years. All the OEM's are factory filling with 10w30 now. GM seems to be holding out.
Folks can throw out all kinds of low pour points they want, but when daytime HIGH temperature is below -50F it doesn't make any difference. And those temps do happen for days. Oil pan warmer cures a lot of ills.
Ya, but not every place has HBOs. Just try and find an outlet in a school or business parking lot. We idled our vehicles at intervals throughout the day.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
So, it looks like you want the T6 or JD Plus 50 II.
There's one problem with that. One should check MRV, or at least CCS results, if possible, not pour point. Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 had, at least, some of the best numbers in that regard when they were being published. I can find you a 15w-40 with a pour point below -40. I wouldn't use it in those conditions, though.
TiredTrucker makes an important point. The lubricant in these conditions could very well be the least of one's worries. Gelled fuel and a struggling battery will be worse.
I think the CCS is all about the same, about the upper limit of acceptable.
Originally Posted By: Solarent
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
The Klondike stuff looks good. Says API CJ-4 and specifically mentions current on-highway deisel engines. No gamble to use that, it meets the specs your engine requires for warranty. Either the 0W30 or 0W40 are good oils. Good viscosity index. Use the 0W30 if you need the extra few C in pour point.
The Triton looks good too.
Loks like you have a good selection of oils here, LS. Should start looking at what it will cost you to get these oils and go from there.
Neither of the Klondike oils are registered with the API. And there are no 0W30 CJ-4 oils currently licensed (perhaps the Delvac Product you mentioned above is "suitable for use").
How can it have OEM approvals and not be licensed? At least, the PDS says it has OE approval from various manufacturers. Liars.
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
So, it looks like you want the T6 or JD Plus 50 II.
There's one problem with that. One should check MRV, or at least CCS results, if possible, not pour point. Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 had, at least, some of the best numbers in that regard when they were being published. I can find you a 15w-40 with a pour point below -40. I wouldn't use it in those conditions, though.
TiredTrucker makes an important point. The lubricant in these conditions could very well be the least of one's worries. Gelled fuel and a struggling battery will be worse.
I think the CCS is all about the same, about the upper limit of acceptable.
Originally Posted By: Solarent
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
The Klondike stuff looks good. Says API CJ-4 and specifically mentions current on-highway deisel engines. No gamble to use that, it meets the specs your engine requires for warranty. Either the 0W30 or 0W40 are good oils. Good viscosity index. Use the 0W30 if you need the extra few C in pour point.
The Triton looks good too.
Loks like you have a good selection of oils here, LS. Should start looking at what it will cost you to get these oils and go from there.
Neither of the Klondike oils are registered with the API. And there are no 0W30 CJ-4 oils currently licensed (perhaps the Delvac Product you mentioned above is "suitable for use").
How can it have OEM approvals and not be licensed? At least, the PDS says it has OE approval from various manufacturers. Liars.
You don't have to be API approved to meet OEM credentials. Some OEM's use the API for a baseline (for example Mack/Volvo) and then put more stringent limits on the tests. But as long as you submit the data to the OEM and pay the fee you can get on their list.
Some marketers claim that their product is "suitable for" or "recommended for applications calling for" which usually means they think it will meet the standards but they don't have the test data to back it up (because running a full HDDEO program costs millions of dollars). These ones may say the OEM credential on the bottle, but if you go to the online published list they are no-where to be found. Another thing you see is the 0W40 grade product being included on the PDS of the 10W30 or 15W40 which are approved. Because they are talking about the mainline grades when they give the list of credentials, people may infer that it applies to all the grades. This is rarely the case.
In the case of 0W30/0W40, it is very difficult to meet the requirements of these grades and still meet CJ-4 and OEM credentials, part of that has to do with the physics of the viscosity grade requirements, the necessary base oil mix and using 17-20% DI. So most companies (except for Delvac and Rotella T6) just make something close and call it good enough, knowing that if there is an issue, they may have to pay for someone's engine.
In contrast PCEO 0W40 would have between 6-12% DI so it's much easier to meet the visc grade requirements. The main performance packages for HDDEO are pretty high in viscosity before they are mixed with the base oil.
Some marketers claim that their product is "suitable for" or "recommended for applications calling for" which usually means they think it will meet the standards but they don't have the test data to back it up (because running a full HDDEO program costs millions of dollars). These ones may say the OEM credential on the bottle, but if you go to the online published list they are no-where to be found. Another thing you see is the 0W40 grade product being included on the PDS of the 10W30 or 15W40 which are approved. Because they are talking about the mainline grades when they give the list of credentials, people may infer that it applies to all the grades. This is rarely the case.
In the case of 0W30/0W40, it is very difficult to meet the requirements of these grades and still meet CJ-4 and OEM credentials, part of that has to do with the physics of the viscosity grade requirements, the necessary base oil mix and using 17-20% DI. So most companies (except for Delvac and Rotella T6) just make something close and call it good enough, knowing that if there is an issue, they may have to pay for someone's engine.
In contrast PCEO 0W40 would have between 6-12% DI so it's much easier to meet the visc grade requirements. The main performance packages for HDDEO are pretty high in viscosity before they are mixed with the base oil.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One thing to keep in mind, unlike folks in the lower 48, folks in Fairbanks generally have block heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery warmers. Gas or Diesel. One good tough winter cures the procrastinators. 10w30 does work well for those that have the foresight to do things right, also a 5w30 full syn CJ-4. I lived near Fairbanks for 10 years. All the OEM's are factory filling with 10w30 now. GM seems to be holding out.
Folks can throw out all kinds of low pour points they want, but when daytime HIGH temperature is below -50F it doesn't make any difference. And those temps do happen for days. Oil pan warmer cures a lot of ills.
Ya, but not every place has HBOs. Just try and find an outlet in a school or business parking lot. We idled our vehicles at intervals throughout the day.
I suppose that is true in some lame places. I never had any issues with having plug ins at work locations. Employees at schools had plug ins where I lived. Only places that didn't were typical retail stores and such. Any place that doesn't have plug ins for employees is pretty lame. Schools, there is no excuse. The public school system in Alaska has gotten tons of money from the oil kickbacks, just like the native indians have in Alaska.
Even in the worst of situations, a Webasto or Espar diesel fired coolant heater would be better than running a diesel engine all day or even idling intermittently. Less than 1/2 gallon of diesel to keep the vehicle engine nice and toasty if run all the time, and when timer is set, can have a engine up at 150F in less than one hour on just a trickle of fuel compared to idling. Problem is, many folks don't have a clue what is available to do things or just don't want to know. Even oil could be warmed easily by installing a coolant supplied pan warmer that would be plumbed in to the Espar or Webasto coolant heater. It would also keep SCR unit from freezing up by keeping DEF thawed, again, by plumbing in to coolant lines that warm the DEF.
There are always viable solutions, many of them very cost effective. Just many outside of dealing with equipment in some real nasty cold have never thought of them. And surprisingly, many folks who do deal with nasty cold have no clue the products that are available to do the job right. They just follow the herd and don't attempt to learn.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One thing to keep in mind, unlike folks in the lower 48, folks in Fairbanks generally have block heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery warmers. Gas or Diesel. One good tough winter cures the procrastinators. 10w30 does work well for those that have the foresight to do things right, also a 5w30 full syn CJ-4. I lived near Fairbanks for 10 years. All the OEM's are factory filling with 10w30 now. GM seems to be holding out.
Folks can throw out all kinds of low pour points they want, but when daytime HIGH temperature is below -50F it doesn't make any difference. And those temps do happen for days. Oil pan warmer cures a lot of ills.
Ya, but not every place has HBOs. Just try and find an outlet in a school or business parking lot. We idled our vehicles at intervals throughout the day.
I suppose that is true in some lame places. I never had any issues with having plug ins at work locations. Employees at schools had plug ins where I lived. Only places that didn't were typical retail stores and such. Any place that doesn't have plug ins for employees is pretty lame. Schools, there is no excuse. The public school system in Alaska has gotten tons of money from the oil kickbacks, just like the native indians have in Alaska.
Even in the worst of situations, a Webasto or Espar diesel fired coolant heater would be better than running a diesel engine all day or even idling intermittently. Less than 1/2 gallon of diesel to keep the vehicle engine nice and toasty if run all the time, and when timer is set, can have a engine up at 150F in less than one hour on just a trickle of fuel compared to idling. Problem is, many folks don't have a clue what is available to do things or just don't want to know. Even oil could be warmed easily by installing a coolant supplied pan warmer that would be plumbed in to the Espar or Webasto coolant heater. It would also keep SCR unit from freezing up by keeping DEF thawed, again, by plumbing in to coolant lines that warm the DEF.
There are always viable solutions, many of them very cost effective. Just many outside of dealing with equipment in some real nasty cold have never thought of them. And surprisingly, many folks who do deal with nasty cold have no clue the products that are available to do the job right. They just follow the herd and don't attempt to learn.
Really TT?
Wow, all oil questions aside, what would possess one to want to live in an area with temps like that?? lol!!! I do cold testing at Aberdeen Proving grounds for my job in -35F and that is just ridiculous!! Most military diesel engines (FMTV's, HWMVVs etc) won't even start or run at those temps!
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Wow, all oil questions aside, what would possess one to want to live in an area with temps like that?? lol!!! I do cold testing at Aberdeen Proving grounds for my job in -35F and that is just ridiculous!! Most military diesel engines (FMTV's, HWMVVs etc) won't even start or run at those temps!
I 100% enjoyed my 5 years in Fairbanks.
Wow, all oil questions aside, what would possess one to want to live in an area with temps like that?? lol!!! I do cold testing at Aberdeen Proving grounds for my job in -35F and that is just ridiculous!! Most military diesel engines (FMTV's, HWMVVs etc) won't even start or run at those temps!
I 100% enjoyed my 5 years in Fairbanks.
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