That's unfortunate...or maybe bypass filtration?

[WellOiled]

WobblyElvis - I did not believe you either. However, I looked for a bread and butter 1970 Chevy owners manual.

Findings below.

For normal passenger car service: Change oil every 6,000 miles or 4 months whichever comes first.
Change the oil filter at first oil change and every second oil change thereafter.

For certain types of service (dusty, trailer hauling, excessive idling, short trips engine not warmed up and commercial use): Change oil every 3,000 miles or 2 months whichever comes first.
Change the oil filter at first oil change and every second oil change thereafter.

They also had a 200 hour cap on idling.

So, if you were running easy highway miles you could run 12,000 miles or 8 months whichever comes first on a filter by the Chevy recommendation. Otherwise, 6,000 miles or 4 months or 200 hours whichever comes first.

Filters of that era had large filters with good capacity.

That is one of the big 3.

If 7,500 mile OCI were common I would think Chevrolet would have been in the mix.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Yes,Chevrolet was in the mix. Looking at a manual from a 1974 or 78 chevy the OCI is 7,500 miles. OCIs went from about 3- 6,000 miles in the 60s. Hence the 6,000 mile oil chain interval for a 70 Chevrolet. I just read the manual for 65 Cadillac and the oci was 6,000 miles.

Long OCIs are noting new and oil filters have been going well over 10,000 miles for years. If they can't handle it now, it's because of poor/cheap manufacturing.

 

[WellOiled]

Here is the Oil and Filter recommendations for the 1996 Crown Victoria.

Normal schedule: 5,000 miles or 6 months

Severe duty schedule: 3,000 miles or 3 months
Severe duty conditions: Extensive idling, trailer towing, driving in dust, police, taxi or delivery.

Source Ford online manuals. It was the oldest one I could find for free.

So, from 2 of the big 3, I don't think they were into extended drain intervals for the oil or the filter.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Only other info I have on hand, Chysler 3.3 in the 90's and 2.2 in the 90's recommend a filter change every second oil change.
My point is, this business of changing an oil filter every 3,000 miles is nonsense. Filters [even cheap ones] must meet OEM requirements and OEM requirements have been quite high for a long time. If a filter can't make it to 10,000 miles of normal use, it is very poorly made.

 

[WellOiled]

WobblyElvis - I found a 1974 owners manual for Chevy Camaro using the PF25 filter.

Chevy recommendations were a carbon copy of the 1970 recommendations:

For normal passenger car service: Change oil every 6,000 miles or 4 months whichever comes first.
Change the oil filter at first oil change and every second oil change thereafter.

For certain types of service (dusty, trailer hauling, excessive idling, short trips engine not warmed up and commercial use): Change oil every 3,000 miles or 2 months whichever comes first.
Change the oil filter at first oil change and every second oil change thereafter.

Absolutely no mention of 7,500 OCI.

Strike 3, you are out.

I think you should concede that MotorKing is correct.

Most of the filters of this era probably had cellulose media and would not tolerate too many cold starts or fuel dilution.

I may as well go for a Dodge next.

 

[WellOiled]

WobblyElvis - Here is a 1969 Plymouth Fury.

Plymouth recommendations copied from the owners manual:

WHEN TO CHANGE Oil: Regular oil changes are required for proper engine operation. Change oil every 3 months or at 4,000 mile intervals, whichever comes first.

Severe Operating Conditions, such as frequent driving on dusty roads, or in sandy areas, or unusually short trip driving in cold weather may require oil changes more frequently than every three months. Under these conditions, consult and follow the advice of any authorized dealer's service manager

TAXI AND POLICE DUTY: A severe service operation which principally consists of short trip driving with frequent and prolonged idling, requires oil changes more often on a regular schedule. For this service, the engine oil should be changed every two months not to exceed 2,000 miles, the filter replaced every second oil change, and the crankcase ventilation system serviced at each oil change. It is suggested for such fleet usage that a clean ventilator valve be installed at each oil change; a new valve may be used, or the old valve removed and cleaned by soaking in carburetor cleaner overnight, then dried with compressed air.

WHEN TO CHANGE OIL FILTER: Particles of dirt or foreign matter that might enter the engine oil are removed by a full-flow throwaway oil filter. It is required that you change the oil filter every second oil change. Severe operating conditions require more frequent oil changes and oil filter replacement.

Again, no mention of 7,500 mile OCI/FCI.

Apparently auto manufacturers thought filters were much better than the oil at the time.

 

[goodtimes]

Filter media missing at the bottom of a pleat like this, filter media torn, filter can leaks, filter explodes, none of it has anything to do with any kind of use recommendation. The whole point is being missed, this is a failure of the filter, and there are no excuses for it. A badly made product got sold. Fram Ultra has a fail on a spreadsheet now. The pictures are right here. Have to accept what it is that is shown even if it's the favorite.

 

[cmlind]

I have my original 1976 Chevrolet Nova owners manual. It says normal 7500 miles for oil and filter every other oil change. Severe 3000 miles.

Somewhere in the mid 70's it went up from 6000 to 7500. Jeez I think some are getting a little worked up over this.

Everyone I know did 3-4k changes and changed the filter every time if they wanted to keep their vehicle over 100k.

 

[funflyer]

Here's an example of a "Ham Fisted" mechanic that shouldn't be using a FU cartridge. I'm not inferring anything with this, merely showing another theory when it comes to media damage. I'm sure the guy in this video thinks he's doing a fantastic job but look carefully from 3:50 on. I see several areas where he's messed up the media with his gloves and even the screwdriver. Once synthetic media has been compromised like this it probably won't take much for the fibers to start coming apart when oil starts to flow.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix



Zing ... right over your head. You really don't get the comment? Figures ...

Not even on your best day FRAM Boy.

Now go see if UPS delivered your latest Ultra shipment from the factory.

You've earned it!!

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ If it didn't go over your head, then you are obviously blind from Fram hate and/or Purolator Fanboyism.

If a torn Fram could send fibers down in to the engine (possible), then so could torn Purolators (or any brand of torn filter), which you have always claimed 'do no harm' to the engine when the media is torn. Oh well ... can't cure the blind.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Filter media missing at the bottom of a pleat like this, filter media torn, filter can leaks, filter explodes, none of it has anything to do with any kind of use recommendation. The whole point is being missed, this is a failure of the filter, and there are no excuses for it. A badly made product got sold. Fram Ultra has a fail on a spreadsheet now. The pictures are right here. Have to accept what it is that is shown even if it's the favorite.

What we see is a filter that failed. What we don't see or know is what caused the filter to fail. I would like to see a proper analysis from Fram. This would end much debate and speculation.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Filter media missing at the bottom of a pleat like this, filter media torn, filter can leaks, filter explodes, none of it has anything to do with any kind of use recommendation. The whole point is being missed, this is a failure of the filter, and there are no excuses for it. A badly made product got sold. Fram Ultra has a fail on a spreadsheet now. The pictures are right here. Have to accept what it is that is shown even if it's the favorite.



Justify overuse however you like but don't blame this fail on Fram. Hopefully the OP will send this filter in to be evaluated. What will be proven is that this filter reached it's contamination saturation point. Fram states this filter "provides" protection for "up to" 15k miles and also directs you follow the vehicle manufacturers recommended oil change interval.

The OPs owners manual likely says to change both the oil and filter when the OLS says it's time to change the oil.

The filter did not fail, the vehicle owner failed to follow directions.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Wonder what the bypass valve on this engine is set to?

Like mentioned earlier, one design goal for an oil filter should be for the filter to take the delta-p that the bypass controls to without failing the media - even if the filter is totally clogged. If the bypass valve is set too high, or doesn't control properly then that too can cause failures like this.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Wonder what the bypass valve on this engine is set to?

Like mentioned earlier, one design goal for an oil filter should be for the filter to take the delta-p that the bypass controls to without failing the media - even if the filter is totally clogged. If the bypass valve is set too high, or doesn't control properly then that too can cause failures like this.


All things considered, differential pressure would have never been an issue had this filter been removed from service as required.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Wonder what the bypass valve on this engine is set to?

Like mentioned earlier, one design goal for an oil filter should be for the filter to take the delta-p that the bypass controls to without failing the media - even if the filter is totally clogged. If the bypass valve is set too high, or doesn't control properly then that too can cause failures like this.


All things considered, differential pressure would have never been an issue had this filter been removed from service as required.


The point I'm trying to make is that any filter should be able to take the same delta-p across the media all day long as what the bypass valve is set to. If media couldn't take at least the delta-p that the bypass valve is set to, then we would be seeing a whole bunch of cut open filters here with damaged media, regardless of how long they've been ran.

The bypass valve is there to protect the filter media from failure, and to also ensure the engine still gets oil (unfiltered) if the media clogs too much.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Wonder what the bypass valve on this engine is set to?

Like mentioned earlier, one design goal for an oil filter should be for the filter to take the delta-p that the bypass controls to without failing the media - even if the filter is totally clogged. If the bypass valve is set too high, or doesn't control properly then that too can cause failures like this.


All things considered, differential pressure would have never been an issue had this filter been removed from service as required.


The point I'm trying to make is that any filter should be able to take the same delta-p across the media all day long as what the bypass valve is set to. If media couldn't take at least the delta-p that the bypass valve is set to, then we would be seeing a whole bunch of cut open filters here with damaged media, regardless of how long they've been ran.

The bypass valve is there to protect the filter media from failure, and to also ensure the engine still gets oil (unfiltered) if the media clogs too much.

ZeeOsix - +1. When the media is plugged, the media must still be able to take the delta-p the bypass valve is set to.

To get a complete answer, the bypass valve should be tested to see if it is operating within spec.

The media should be checked to see if it is plugged. If the media is plugged, the media should be checked that it can not be destroyed by the design working pressure of the relief valve.

This may be a problem where the variability of the working pressure of the relief valve intersects with the variability of the medias tolerance to delta-p. To prevent failures the two distributions have to be separated. 1) reduce the bypass pressure limit 2) build a stronger filter or 3) a combination of both.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Filter media missing at the bottom of a pleat like this, filter media torn, filter can leaks, filter explodes, none of it has anything to do with any kind of use recommendation. The whole point is being missed, this is a failure of the filter, and there are no excuses for it. A badly made product got sold. Fram Ultra has a fail on a spreadsheet now. The pictures are right here. Have to accept what it is that is shown even if it's the favorite.



Justify overuse however you like but don't blame this fail on Fram. Hopefully the OP will send this filter in to be evaluated. What will be proven is that this filter reached it's contamination saturation point. Fram states this filter "provides" protection for "up to" 15k miles and also directs you follow the vehicle manufacturers recommended oil change interval.

The OPs owners manual likely says to change both the oil and filter when the OLS says it's time to change the oil.

The filter did not fail, the vehicle owner failed to follow directions.

Funflyer - If this were my ecotec, I would back off the OCI and FCI. May be this could have been prevented by following instructions. I would also change the cap. If the filter continues to be a problem, then move away from this brand and part number. There are others available.

 

[beanoil]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Filter media missing at the bottom of a pleat like this, filter media torn, filter can leaks, filter explodes, none of it has anything to do with any kind of use recommendation. The whole point is being missed, this is a failure of the filter, and there are no excuses for it. A badly made product got sold. Fram Ultra has a fail on a spreadsheet now. The pictures are right here. Have to accept what it is that is shown even if it's the favorite.

What we see is a filter that failed. What we don't see or know is what caused the filter to fail. I would like to see a proper analysis from Fram. This would end much debate and speculation.

What you see is a filter that was left in place for 20,000 miles according to the OP. Why would anyone think it should be in serviceable shape after being run well past it's design spec? Even the darned box says "UP TO 15,000 miles". It does not say "Guaranteed to look great, without fail when left in place for longer than we have tested for, or because you think you know more than us."
Some of these latest claims from folks... "I went 30k on an oil and filter", "I ran this filter for 2 oil fills", blah blah. If you don't want to take 5 minutes and change a cartridge filter on an EcoTec while you are waiting for the oil to drain, then live with it when the filter failure happens.

 

[linksep]

Guys, get over it! You are reminding me why I quit coming here!

Not all miles are equal to all other miles. I figured I was driving nearly the easiest miles possible so I could go 2 OCI per FCI on a top-shelf-ultimate-premium filter (and only stretching the FCI by a measly 5k miles over the box recommendation). Also as mentioned by someone else, I would assume the media (totally plugged) should be able to withstand Delta P at 0 degrees F oil temp and engine redline with a functional in-spec bypass system, a far harsher condition than my engine/oil/filter was ever exposed to)... I don't think that's too much to ask, especially with that fine wire mesh backer.

I think it was a QC defect on Fram's part but we'll never know because:
1) In this or another thread someone sent a torn filter back to Fram that "couldn't be tested because of damage" which would be the same in this case.
2) I tore a chunk of filter media off to shine a flashlight through it (intentional and excessive damage to filter media?) The media was not PLUGGED, I could see light through some areas, but it was less light than I expected to see. In any event I would expect the bypass to relieve enough pressure/flow that the media wouldn't tear.
3) The filter is gone, never to be seen again.

I put a FU right back in it's place because that's what I had on hand and I'm not sweating. I've used several FU filters in this engine (on 8K and 10K FCI) and never noticed tearing before.