Don't believe the hype of "never change the oil"

[Fsharp]

I'm talking about the newer B&S engines which say oil changes aren't neccesary, only add oil if needed. I bought one last Summer and used it about once a week for an hour or so to cut the lawn for maybe 15 weeks. I've been doing the same this Spring, having only checked the oil, not changed it. Lately I'd noticed it would produce a puff of smoke upon start-up, so I decided to go ahead and change the oil even though it's a bit of a pain because there's no drain plug! (Correct me if I'm wrong)

I had to tip the mower upside down and hold it while it drained. That's when I saw the oil which looked like a metallic grey slurry. I have never seen oil like this even doing a regular break-in oil change. I wish I had thought of collecting some for a UOA as I'm sure the wear metals would've been unbelievably high. Anyhow, I filled it back up with Supertech Synthetic 5w-30 and I no longer get the puff of smoke upon start up and have some peace of mind.

No complaints about the engine otherwise. It starts first pull every time, burns clean and has plenty of power. I think it's the 725exi. I wish B&S would stop advertising "no oil change needed" but I suppose it's based on a calculation of the average mower lifespan and whatever else. I know mine will be getting annual changes from now on.

Thoughts? Experiences?

 

[Colt45ws]

How are they supposed to sell all those mowers if everybody keeps theirs running for 20 years.

 

[HemiHawk]

This must be like BMWs lifetime trans fluid.

But really, how could any combustion engine NOT need an oil change? I changed my snow blower end of last season and while it was still black, you could surely see metallic specs in there. Being there is no oil filter on those motors, I could only imagine oil changes are important.

 

[larryinnewyork]

I know what you're saying. I changed the oil on a 'new' B&S engine years ago and was surprised at the amount of silver color in the oil.

Now if I buy a new B&S engine, I change the oil every 1/2 hour for the first 5 hours of use.
Then every hour. Once I see it coming out clean, I'll go once or twice a year.

I believe for the low - mid quality engines, B&S now uses a type of 'plastic' for the cams.
I saw photos and the Patent for it doing an Internet Search.
The Shaft was steel but the Cams were plastic (I don't know what type of plastic).

I put a new engine on my snow-thrower with the plastic cams.
I figure I'll get 20 years out of the engine.
This is an Ariens that my Father bought in 1977.

 

[firemachine69]

Based on what my coworker who owns a little small engine shop says, all the other stuff will fail first (gear case, keyway, throttle, recoil).


While I understand the mentality on BITOG to preserve an engine as long as possible, the absolute worse than will happen here will be an uncut lawn for a few hours while you go out to buy a new mower, not leave you stranded on the side of a ten-lane highway... Which is basically the standard to which these things are built nowadays, unless you go buy pro models for 1k+++.


Other than greasing the joints in my $500 snow blower at my rental property, it's had exactly one syn oil change from the factory fill, and that's all it'll ever get. Changing all the fluids and belts as per the manual, when the frame is all bent to snot, would cost half of that. Meaning it isn't financially sensible, unless you just enjoy doing it as a hobby.

There's a reason the Canada Revenue Agency lets you write these things off at 25% a year...

 

[BrocLuno]

I keep them running and I have Troy-Built tiller that maybe 30 years old. I know the JD lawn tractor is 28 years. The LL reverse tine tiller is maybe 25 years old. Stuff all got once a year changes.

If it look metallic, it's bad, change it. How about tipping on its side and using a marine suction pump?

Bottom line for me, no drain plug, no sale ...

 

[CT8]

The metallic stuff is the secret break in lube additive

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Based on what my coworker who owns a little small engine shop says, all the other stuff will fail first (gear case, keyway, throttle, recoil).


While I understand the mentality on BITOG to preserve an engine as long as possible, the absolute worse than will happen here will be an uncut lawn for a few hours while you go out to buy a new mower, not leave you stranded on the side of a ten-lane highway... Which is basically the standard to which these things are built nowadays, unless you go buy pro models for 1k+++.


Other than greasing the joints in my $500 snow blower at my rental property, it's had exactly one syn oil change from the factory fill, and that's all it'll ever get. Changing all the fluids and belts as per the manual, when the frame is all bent to snot, would cost half of that. Meaning it isn't financially sensible, unless you just enjoy doing it as a hobby.

There's a reason the Canada Revenue Agency lets you write these things off at 25% a year...
I have a 10 year old Honda and I don't care to throw away dough on a new one because I saved a few bucks on oil. Maybe you do. My vacuum oil extractor works just fine on the mower.

 

[JTK]

Even with the glitter never removed, these engines would still last years provided an oil level is maintained. How many years is anyone's guess. Most people just throw them out once they don't start easily or something simple breaks on them.

 

[KingCake]

They'll probably booger up the crank from hitting a root before the engine ever dies from oil related issues. If it ever does.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: Fsharp
I had to tip the mower upside down and hold it while it drained. That's when I saw the oil which looked like a metallic grey slurry.


Must be a B&S thing. Honda says to change the oil every 25 hours or sooner in dusty conditions. On my new Honda, I changed the oil after the first hour and again at the end of the season. It had about 15-20 hours total and the oil looked a bit darker than new but had no metallic at all.

 

[compratio10_5]

Not changing oil on a new engine is like repeatedly rubbing your face in the dirt. This reminds me of something that I do not understand. A few years ago when I was looking for a new mower, I could not find one that had an oil drain plug on the bottom of the engine sump. All mowers required that the engine be tipped over so that the oil would drain out of the fill tube. To me this is crazy because it spreads the wear particles throughout the engine rather than just flushing them out of the bottom of the sump. I doubt that a vacuum oil extractor is going suck all the particles off the bottom of the sump. I finally purchased an overhead valve model that just required a 90 degree tilt away from the cylinder to drain the oil but I am still not happy about not having a drain plug. Over the years I have carefully observed the initial few oil changes on small engines without oil filters and without exception that first oil change after break-in (about 5 hours of operation) is filled with metallic particles that glint in the sunlight when tilting the container. Small engines will last a long time if the oil gets changed in the fall, the engine is run out of gas before being stored and the air filter is sealed. Thanks for the feed back from other thinking members of this forum. To paraphrase Yogi Berra, "You can see a lot just by looking".

 

[Buzzsaw]

The air filter on these engines is the weak point. The filter is too small, doesn't fit snugly, and clogs way too easily.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
How are they supposed to sell all those mowers if everybody keeps theirs running for 20 years.
I know (or at least I HOPE) you're being facetious, but there's a grain of truth to that.

It's good marketing on their part...when Joe Typical Homeowner's neglected mower croaks and he's looking for a new one, here's B&S offering a mower that needs no care at all, just perfect for Joe!

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
How are they supposed to sell all those mowers if everybody keeps theirs running for 20 years.
I know (or at least I HOPE) you're being facetious, but there's a grain of truth to that.

It's good marketing on their part...when Joe Typical Homeowner's neglected mower croaks and he's looking for a new one, here's B&S offering a mower that needs no care at all, just perfect for Joe!


The funny thing is that these mowers will end up in the shop anyway because of the ethanol fuel. No maintenance also means no fuel system care. I've already seen a few of these engines with green algae like stuff in the carb passages.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
The funny thing is that these mowers will end up in the shop anyway because of the ethanol fuel. No maintenance also means no fuel system care. I've already seen a few of these engines with green algae like stuff in the carb passages.



Ethanol is easily removed from gasoline, in small quantities anyway, see my reply in THIS post. I was chastised in the mower forum for suggesting this so all I will say is for those who are a danger to themselves and have no common sense please don't try this without parental supervision. I've been doing this for years and never have any of the ethanol problems that others are plagued with.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
The funny thing is that these mowers will end up in the shop anyway because of the ethanol fuel. No maintenance also means no fuel system care. I've already seen a few of these engines with green algae like stuff in the carb passages.



Ethanol is easily removed from gasoline, in small quantities anyway, see my reply in THIS post. I was chastised in the mower forum for suggesting this so all I will say is for those who are a danger to themselves and have no common sense please don't try this without parental supervision. I've been doing this for years and never have any of the ethanol problems that others are plagued with.


Oh I agree, it can be removed and even people who use Marine Stabil have good results. The majority of people who use lawn equipment will not do either of these though. If they can't be bothered to change the oil (or even check the oil), they won't put stabilizer in the fuel.

 

[Lubener]

A sales gimmick. Even a no change will get you past the warranty period which is what they want.

 

[FastLane]

I own a new exi Briggs. It's a decent little engine. Once the first oil change is done and you switch to synthetic, I'll bet the engine will last a long time. The new engines run quiet a bit cooler than the old L heads.

 

[fdcg27]

This is probably more a matter of Briggs making a virtue of reality than any sort of sin.
Briggs knows that the average guy these days can barely turn a screwdriver and takes his car to either the local quicky lube or the dealer, where a lot guy of the same skill level as the quicky lube boys will do the oil change.
This guy doesn't have a clue about draining the oil out of his mower and is not about to load it up and take it to the local small engine shop for an oil change.
So, the mower never sees an oil change. Over time, the engine will begin changing its own oil and as long as the owner keeps the engine topped up with fresh oil of any brand, basestock or grade, the engine will be just fine for many hours.
Why go to the expense of building in a drain plug when you already know that nine out of ten of them will never be touched? For the one in ten who care, there are still ways of draining the engine oil.
No harm and no foul here.