How to make asphalt

[mjoekingz28]

Originally Posted By: John_K
When I was a kid the village I lived in hired someone to repave a street. Somehow they didn't do it right, and it all crumbled and turned into a tar covered mess. Village had to dump sand on it. So I can't imagine a DIY project trying to make it.





A village?

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: mk378
Used motor oil is wholly unsuitable for any phase of this project. It will only make a mess. There were scammers who would pretend to apply driveway sealer, but use used motor oil instead.


Classic scam in Europe even today.

If roofing tar is used it can take ages to dry, solvents won't evaporate very fast. (in mild weather)

 

[SHOZ]

I have 10 gallons of the foundation coating. It is about 30% mineral spirits and the rest asphalt. Says 100 sq ft per gallon when applied to the foundation. I have about 200 sq ft. Plenty of chip gravel and three days no rain.

I'll give it a go this afternoon.

 

[SHOZ]

I will need to get another bucket. $35 each though and only three for the full job. Gravel is free.

 

[Shannow]

Seriously,
you are the rabid "destroying the environment" in the power threads, but were going to throw used oil on the ground...and then...

Where are all the solvents going ?

Rain, and runoff ?

Your environmental risk assessment ?

Or just "cheap and suits me now" ?

 

[SHOZ]

They evaporate.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
They evaporate.


to where ?

your OP was used engine oil on the ground...

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I need to make some to lay down with gravel chips for about 10' of driveway. I have plenty of used oil.


How does THAT sit ?

Where does that go ?

What about the cyclic aromatics and heavy metals ?

Or was it just "cheap" ?

 

[SHOZ]

They evaporate into the atmosphere. It is a commercially available foundation coating. I would imagine 1000s of gallons are used it the USA over a year.

The original base is gravel that has had asphalt and chips applied many times.

This is what the majority of of the township roads are made of here in rural Illinois. My county probably has over a 1000 miles of these types of roads.

 

[Shannow]

You are using what's essentially a paint.

Your roads aren't anything like that.

And they aren't like pouring your used oil on the ground either.

But yes, it's cheaper than doing the right thing, isn't it, as it's from YOUR pocket.

 

[SHOZ]

Do you know how asphalt is made? It starts as oil and is pressurized and cooked to drive off the lighter hydrocarbons, then powdered limestone is mixed in. The product I used just has the solvents added back for application purposes.

What little used oil that was laid down is trapped by the layer of crushed limestone, there is no run off. It's what they use to use before they used asphalt on the gravel roads around here.

I only did one half of the area. I did not know how much was needed or how the application would go. The liquid did not stick well to the fine dust. I should have either added some oil to the dirt to facilitate the bonding or washed it down with water to clean the fine dust away and expose the layer of rock and asphalt that was already there.

 

[kschachn]

The title of this thread is "How to make asphalt", I still don't understand how you are making asphalt with oil. Are you claiming you're increasing the overall molecular weight so that it's asphalt? Asphalt isn't "made", it's the high molecular weight fractions of crude oil.

I mean, you still have the low molecular weight compounds that are either evaporating or leaching out, that's what people are asking about. Those compounds surely aren't being reformed somewhere in this process.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
The title of this thread is "How to make asphalt", I still don't understand how you are making asphalt with oil. Are you claiming you're increasing the overall molecular weight so that it's asphalt? Asphalt isn't "made", it's the high molecular weight fractions of crude oil.

I mean, you still have the low molecular weight compounds that are either evaporating or leaching out, that's what people are asking about. Those compounds surely aren't being reformed somewhere in this process.
Asphalt is made from oil. I did not make any I found a commercially available asphalt that does not need to be heated to apply.

 

[doitmyself]

Kind of a strange thread here. The OP started out wanting to use waste oil spread out on his driveway, creating a lashing out of pro environment concerns. He then switched to using a commercial product, but many did not catch on. It will be interesting how his homemade application will compare to commercial work.

- Village? (mjoekingz28): No, not the African kind. This is just one form of administrative classification very common in some parts of the U.S.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_Wisconsin

- For those not familiar, the process Shoz is doing is called chip seal paving: https://www.google.com/#q=chip+seal+paving

- Finally, I'm not sure why the OP initially confused chip seal with used oil for the application. Used oil might actually hamper the adhesion of any product AND it is certainly not a good thing to do environmentally: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/used-motor-oil-pollute-79336.html

"Used motor oil contains numerous toxic substances, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are known to cause cancer. In addition, tiny pieces of metal from engine wear and tear, such as lead, zinc and arsenic, make their way into lubricants, further contributing to the polluting potential of used motor oil. Motor oil is exposed to heat and oxygen during engine combustion, which changes its chemical makeup. (See Reference 2, Pages 6 and 7) Because spent motor oil is heavy and sticky, and contains an extensive concentrated cocktail of toxic compounds, it can build up and persist in the environment for years."

My goodness, I remember when it was common to just dump used motor oil on the ground after an oil change.

 

[SHOZ]

I'm not at all confused on what I wanted and what I did.

Asphalt (tar) is made from oil. I doubt if there is any lead in any used oil I have.

 

[MNgopher]

Well, the thread title is certainly not what actually is happening here... No asphalt was "made".

Instead, the OP has merely created a chip seal pavement. It can be done on gravel, but is most often used on bituminous roadways.

The method used is exactly what the repair method used by road maintenance forces to make repairs to a road done this way - roofing asphalt with the gravel.

How well it will actually function is dependent on the quality of the base and avoiding turning/skidding movements on the placed material - it will pull out very easily.

And a big no on using motor oil - new or used. There are a lot of things that we used to do the we know better now, and this is one of them.

The roofing asphalt and gravel is fine though.

 

[SHOZ]

One of the big improvements in asphalt road treatment is adding rubber, either recycled or synthetic, to the tar. This is what the adhesive is on shingles. It is sprayed and then chipped. They us it for patching and for new chip roads here. Very durable and you can use the road almost immediately.

 

[JHZR2]

Some places "oil" dirt roads for dust control. Not a great practice.

Asphalt I believe is made from the very heavy ends of crude refining. Used oil is too light.

I believe also that random dumping of used oil is far from proper practice, if not illegal.

As it appears more relevant products are now defined, the oil is OBE.

 

[SHOZ]

It took 5 days for the solvent to fully evaporate from the asphalt. But things worked out well. The asphalt would slowly run due to a slight slope of the drive. I would go out and cover the exposed tar that ran with some more gravel and tamped down each day. On the other half there is some exposed gravel and that needs to be primed with some oil first. But I need a three day period with no rain so I have to wait.

 

[SHOZ]

Poured another bucket of the tar yesterday. This time I let the bucket sit open for 3 hours so some of the solvent would evaporate. Worked much better as this morning there was very little running that needed more stone. Still have a 2'x14' strip to do but can only do one half at at time.

I used some oil on the areas that had dirt or gravel dust. The tar will not stick to the dry dirt but the oil mixed in it makes it bond easily so it gets sealed by the tar.

 

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I don't want typical asphalt paving as I would not be able to get it thick enough. It already has a base of some tar and chip.

I think I get another bucket of the foundation coating, sweep it clean and apply some used oil to soften the tar then pour the coating and coat with chips.



Uhm... If you fail this badly at math cost-wise, I suggest you quit this idea while you're ahead...


For information, a ton of grade 3 (typical driveway stuff) is about $120 (Canadian dollars) around here, mid-north of the country. It would probably be twice as much to do your make-shift idea, which will likely fail in a hurry.

And oh, I work in the water department. Trust me, my bosses are extremely zealous about oil leaching into the ground...