M1 0w20, 10,093 miles, 2006 Civic

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Patman

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Here are the latest results from my 2006 Civic, analysis done by Wearcheck Canada:


10,093 miles on oil
June 14, 2015 to June 23, 2016
127,917 miles on engine
Mobil 1 0w20
Fram Ultra oil filter
4.0L oil capacity
1.5L make up oil
MM was 2100 miles below 0%


Iron 8.5
Lead 0
Aluminum 3.5
Copper 0.5
Chromium 0.7
Nickel 0
Titanium 0
Tin 0.1
Silver 0

Silicon 16
Potassium 1.2
Sodium 7.6

Moly 73
Boron 34
Barium 0.1
Calcium 1051
Magnesium 799

Manganese 0.3
Antimony 0.7
Vanadium 0.2
Beryllium 0
Cadmium 0
Lithium 0.1
Sulfur 1638
ZDDP 15.4

Phosphorus 604
Zinc 691

Oxidation 70%
Nitration 70%
Sulfation 63%

Soot 0
Glycol 0
Water 0
Fuel 0


Viscosity at 100c 7.2


This is the longest I have gone between changes with this car and I was very impressed with the low numbers. In fact, all of my wear numbers were lower than my previous interval even though it was a shorter run (7700 mi)

I put in more M1 0w20 and a Mobil 1 filter this time (got it free with the purchase of a jug of M1)
 
This is an extremely helpful UOA for Honda owners...

The oil passed through a Winter, so right there this is Severe Service being doubled+.

Also, the start of the oil change, many would agree, was right after a 100% broken in engine (I would say 29,000 miles at the start is a perfect time to start sampling).

It lets people know the days of high FE wear numbers for Mobil are a thing of the past (SM days).

I am super curious if Pennzoil Ultra would require the same amount of makeup oil (1.5L).

Did you tow anything or gun it up on ramps or bring it to redline from time to time?

Thanks for the great report... My fill of PU may stay in the sump for 10,000miles though not the same engine but same manufacturer and Climate.
 
Honda engines for most applications have fairly low wear metals compares with others. It is fairly normal to see wear metal at less than 1 PPM per 1000 miles from a Honda engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken
This is an extremely helpful UOA for Honda owners...

The oil passed through a Winter, so right there this is Severe Service being doubled+.

Also, the start of the oil change, many would agree, was right after a 100% broken in engine (I would say 29,000 miles at the start is a perfect time to start sampling).

It lets people know the days of high FE wear numbers for Mobil are a thing of the past (SM days).

I am super curious if Pennzoil Ultra would require the same amount of makeup oil (1.5L).

Did you tow anything or gun it up on ramps or bring it to redline from time to time?

Thanks for the great report... My fill of PU may stay in the sump for 10,000miles though not the same engine but same manufacturer and Climate.


High iron numbers? Actually the acceptable level of iron is 150 PPM. I don't ever remember seeing that kind of number in UOAs for any oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken



Did you tow anything or gun it up on ramps or bring it to redline from time to time?



I have never towed anything with this car, in fact it leads a pretty gentle life as most of the time I'm the only one in the car (and I weigh less than 170) and it spends most of it's life below 2500 rpm. I rarely go full throttle (it just doesn't give the same thrill as the Corvette at full throttle)
smile.gif
This car's goal is to get maximum MPG for me, it knocks down 45 MPG if I do a steady 60mph and even in my daily commute it averages 35. I actually enjoy this car very much, I can take it anywhere and not care if it gets scratched or dented and it's comfortable and quiet, it really doesn't feel as old as it is.
 
The oxidation, nitration and sulfation numbers don't seem right. I don't think they are percentages. Do you know the VOA numbers?
 
There is nothing to wonder, those are the numbers.
My guess is that the oil is not up to the task of 10k miles,
and the wear metals are imbedded in the sludge, varnish and filter.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
There is nothing to wonder, those are the numbers.
My guess is that the oil is not up to the task of 10k miles,
and the wear metals are imbedded in the sludge, varnish and filter.


Without a TBN, that's still just a guess. Certain base oils show naturally high levels of oxidation from what I recall. If it was truly straight-up oxidation, we would see viscosity increase, which is not present here.
 
Maybe the oil sheared out of grade, but evaporative losses and oxidation saved the day?

I can't see the benefit of extending the OCI for economic reasons, if fuel economy is lost as the oil ages and FMs are consumed.

TBN retention is illustrated in mono-grade engine oils that typically start lower, but retain better.
Not just TBN, but additive packages as a whole, seen to start lower, and retain better.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
The oxidation, nitration and sulfation numbers don't seem right. I don't think they are percentages. Do you know the VOA numbers?


I don't know the VOA for this oil from this lab unfortunately. On the reports it does list the oxidation, nitration and sulfation numbers as being percentages but it doesn't make sense to me to see it higher than 100%, and on the report I just posted for my wife's car the oxidation shows up as over 200%. I recall talking to one of the lab techs from Wearcheck a number of years ago and at that time he told me those numbers were not percentages but they were a number out of 200, but that still doesn't make sense to see it go higher than 200, so I honestly don't worry about those numbers too much since they always seem very high for every UOA from Wearcheck.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Maybe the oil sheared out of grade, but evaporative losses and oxidation saved the day?

I can't see the benefit of extending the OCI for economic reasons, if fuel economy is lost as the oil ages and FMs are consumed.

TBN retention is illustrated in mono-grade engine oils that typically start lower, but retain better.
Not just TBN, but additive packages as a whole, seen to start lower, and retain better.


Doubtful, it has a high percentage of PAO in it. I'm guessing it is just a natural artifact of the oil's composition, though I am surprised he didn't spring for TBN/TAN given the extended interval, that would have really helped here.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: badtlc
The oxidation, nitration and sulfation numbers don't seem right. I don't think they are percentages. Do you know the VOA numbers?


I don't know the VOA for this oil from this lab unfortunately. On the reports it does list the oxidation, nitration and sulfation numbers as being percentages but it doesn't make sense to me to see it higher than 100%, and on the report I just posted for my wife's car the oxidation shows up as over 200%. I recall talking to one of the lab techs from Wearcheck a number of years ago and at that time he told me those numbers were not percentages but they were a number out of 200, but that still doesn't make sense to see it go higher than 200, so I honestly don't worry about those numbers too much since they always seem very high for every UOA from Wearcheck.


Perhaps contacting them and getting an succinct explanation that can be shared here for future reference would be beneficial?
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Maybe the oil sheared out of grade, but evaporative losses and oxidation saved the day?

I can't see the benefit of extending the OCI for economic reasons, if fuel economy is lost as the oil ages and FMs are consumed.



My MPG at the end of this interval was just as good as it is now with fresh oil.

I like doing once a year oil changes, not really to save money (if I really wanted so save money would I be doing UOAs every oil change for every car I own?) but to save the hassle of changing oil. With three vehicles I would be under them constantly if I did 3k oil changes.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Perhaps contacting them and getting an succinct explanation that can be shared here for future reference would be beneficial?


I will fire off an email to them and share the info here when they respond.

As far as TBN/TAN, I used to get the more expensive kits that included that, but I stopped buying those kits a number of years ago to save money since I never saw the TBN come anywhere close to the danger zone. It would definitely be beneficial if I was pushing the oil a lot further than I do now (15k or higher)
 
I got a very quick response to my email, from the president of Wearcheck Canada actually! Here is his response:

We use percentage allowable (PA) based on the allowable levels for oxidation, nitration and sulphation by FT-IR. Essentally oxidation is Abs/cm is abnormal at 0.2, so if your reading was 0.2 that would be 100 PA. Most likely you have some PAO synthetic oil in your car and that is masking the true oxidation value and making the oxidation appear to be much higher because part of the PAO molecule shows up at the same wavelength as oxidation by-products. Hope this answers some questions for you.



If you want the oxidation value in Abs/cm, then simply multiply by 0.2.

For sulphation and nitration multiply the PA by 0.25.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Is it inconceivable that the base oil could shear under high stress?


Yes. Base oils don't shear, just the VII's do. A 0w-20 blended with PAO will have very few VII's.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
I got a very quick response to my email, from the president of Wearcheck Canada actually! Here is his response:

We use percentage allowable (PA) based on the allowable levels for oxidation, nitration and sulphation by FT-IR. Essentally oxidation is Abs/cm is abnormal at 0.2, so if your reading was 0.2 that would be 100 PA. Most likely you have some PAO synthetic oil in your car and that is masking the true oxidation value and making the oxidation appear to be much higher because part of the PAO molecule shows up at the same wavelength as oxidation by-products. Hope this answers some questions for you.



If you want the oxidation value in Abs/cm, then simply multiply by 0.2.

For sulphation and nitration multiply the PA by 0.25.



Well, that explains it, as this oil has a good slug of PAO in it
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