M1-EP vs vanilla M1

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Given there is a seemingly meaningless $3 difference between regular M1 and the EP flavor, is there any real reason not to spring for the EP?

Just changed the oil in my wife's Escape with the EP and Fram Ultra. Any reasons not to run it out 10k with the 2.0 Ecoboost? My Focus ST has the same motor and I usually use PUPPP.
 
Considering both the oil and filter are advertised for up to 15K intervals, you should be good for 10K. Only way to be sure is to get a UOA, but you can also look for UOAs for M1EP on your engine in the UOA forum.
 
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Given there is a seemingly meaningless $3 difference between regular M1 and the EP flavor, is there any real reason not to spring for the EP?

Just changed the oil in my wife's Escape with the EP and Fram Ultra. Any reasons not to run it out 10k with the 2.0 Ecoboost? My Focus ST has the same motor and I usually use PUPPP.

Nope. Ecoboost is DI engine, and due to high sulfur level in the U.S. gas TBN will deplete much faster then in regular engine.
Ford is bringing engines from Europe, and they use similar technology like VW and others.
Also, I would run something thicker in that engine, like Castrol 0W30, Mobil1 0W40 or other ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils.
I would say 5K, 7.5K at most.
 
Originally Posted By: double vanos
Don't forget Castrol 0w-40, my favorite!

Yeah, but this engine calls for thinner oils but it has turbo. Castrol 0W40 is 13.5cst (VOA shows 13.7cst) while M1 0W40 FS is 12.9cst and Castrol 0W30 is 12.2cst.
I would go with M1 0W40 FS or Castrol 0W30.
I use Castrol 0W40 and it is great oil, but might "drag" turbo spool too much.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: double vanos
Don't forget Castrol 0w-40, my favorite!

Yeah, but this engine calls for thinner oils but it has turbo. Castrol 0W40 is 13.5cst (VOA shows 13.7cst) while M1 0W40 FS is 12.9cst and Castrol 0W30 is 12.2cst.
I would go with M1 0W40 FS or Castrol 0W30.
I use Castrol 0W40 and it is great oil, but might "drag" turbo spool too much.


How long have you used Castrol 0-40?
 
The Thread Title is making me think of this:

Pepsi_Sugar_Van_12.png
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: double vanos
Don't forget Castrol 0w-40, my favorite!

Yeah, but this engine calls for thinner oils but it has turbo. Castrol 0W40 is 13.5cst (VOA shows 13.7cst) while M1 0W40 FS is 12.9cst and Castrol 0W30 is 12.2cst.
I would go with M1 0W40 FS or Castrol 0W30.
I use Castrol 0W40 and it is great oil, but might "drag" turbo spool too much.


How long have you used Castrol 0-40?

Since it is available in 5qt jugs, so I would say 3 years. Before that I used Castrol 0W30 sometime M1 0W40 (old version), and preferred Castrol 0W30/40 in VW application.
Reason why I am saying Castrol 0W40 might be drag on turbo is that engine is designed around lighter oils. M1 0W40 FS is almost 0W30. It is thicker for sure then what is recommended for Ford Ecoboost, but not as thick as Castrol 0W40.
 
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Running that long go with the EP, but regular M1 can handle up to 7k easily. If it's still under warranty, I wouldn't stray from the interval it recommends in the manual. In that case, just use regular M1 and call it a day.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Given there is a seemingly meaningless $3 difference between regular M1 and the EP flavor, is there any real reason not to spring for the EP?

Just changed the oil in my wife's Escape with the EP and Fram Ultra. Any reasons not to run it out 10k with the 2.0 Ecoboost? My Focus ST has the same motor and I usually use PUPPP.

Nope. Ecoboost is DI engine, and due to high sulfur level in the U.S. gas TBN will deplete much faster then in regular engine.
Ford is bringing engines from Europe, and they use similar technology like VW and others.
Also, I would run something thicker in that engine, like Castrol 0W30, Mobil1 0W40 or other ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils.
I would say 5K, 7.5K at most.


Sulfur in regular fuel? I thought that was a diesel thing. Sulfur in gas is somewhere around 30-80 ppm, compared to diesel 500 ppm.

And sulfur is a lubricant and corrosion inhibitor, how would that effect TBN in a bad way?

Are you talking about carbon? That's an abrasive. I could see a direct injection engine having problems with carbon saturating the oil, causing long term problems.
 
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EcoBoost engines are well known for fuel dilution, shearing & TBN depletion due to gasoline direct injection & turbocharger(s).

I would not exceed 7K miles with an EcoBoost, even on M1 EP.

Stick to a quality syn blend or full synthetic & change at 5K-6K mile intervals to keep your EcoBoost happiest for the long run.
 
Originally Posted By: doublebase
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Given there is a seemingly meaningless $3 difference between regular M1 and the EP flavor, is there any real reason not to spring for the EP?

Just changed the oil in my wife's Escape with the EP and Fram Ultra. Any reasons not to run it out 10k with the 2.0 Ecoboost? My Focus ST has the same motor and I usually use PUPPP.

Nope. Ecoboost is DI engine, and due to high sulfur level in the U.S. gas TBN will deplete much faster then in regular engine.
Ford is bringing engines from Europe, and they use similar technology like VW and others.
Also, I would run something thicker in that engine, like Castrol 0W30, Mobil1 0W40 or other ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils.
I would say 5K, 7.5K at most.


Sulfur in regular fuel? I thought that was a diesel thing. Sulfur in gas is somewhere around 30-80 ppm, compared to diesel 500 ppm.

And sulfur is a lubricant and corrosion inhibitor, how would that effect TBN in a bad way?

Are you talking about carbon? That's an abrasive. I could see a direct injection engine having problems with carbon saturating the oil, causing long term problems.

Nope.
Sulfur levels in today's diesel is MAX 15ppm. In gas is MAX 30ppm (going to 10ppm as of 01/01/2017).
Due to direct injection there is dilution of oil that happens because of fuel that ends up in oil. That sulfur is basically destroying TBN.
As for carbon, yes, it huge problem on DI engines. Some engines have less issues some more issues, but it is there. First, there is no washing of intake valves by mixture of fuel and air. Then it depends how intake manifold is designed (known VW issues).
However, FORD ecoboost engines are known as oil diluters, so using bit heavier oil in my opinion is imperative.
 
For $3 extra for 5 qt, why not ditch the vanilla and go with the premium vanilla (EP)? I would pay $3 for better vanilla (more PAO), which makes a better oil.

We are lucky to have M1 so cheap in US to the point that we are having a discussion over whether to pay $3 for a significantly better oil change (a lot more PAO), which won't even buy you a beer.
 
Quote:
We are lucky to have M1 so cheap in US to the point that we are having a discussion over whether to pay $3 for a significantly better oil change (a lot more PAO), which won't even buy you a beer


thumbsup2.gif


Oil is cheap. Never understood why so many fuss over price.
 
It's a cost issue when formulating. If you can meet the desired spec by blending group III with some PAO, then that’s what they will do.

If you look at the MSDS for M1 AFE 0w30, it has 30% PAO. If you look at Mobil 1 Racing 0w30, it has 80% PAO.

All of the Mobil 1 line contain PAO base oils in varying %’s depending on the performance target they are after.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: doublebase
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Given there is a seemingly meaningless $3 difference between regular M1 and the EP flavor, is there any real reason not to spring for the EP?

Just changed the oil in my wife's Escape with the EP and Fram Ultra. Any reasons not to run it out 10k with the 2.0 Ecoboost? My Focus ST has the same motor and I usually use PUPPP.

Nope. Ecoboost is DI engine, and due to high sulfur level in the U.S. gas TBN will deplete much faster then in regular engine.
Ford is bringing engines from Europe, and they use similar technology like VW and others.
Also, I would run something thicker in that engine, like Castrol 0W30, Mobil1 0W40 or other ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils.
I would say 5K, 7.5K at most.


Sulfur in regular fuel? I thought that was a diesel thing. Sulfur in gas is somewhere around 30-80 ppm, compared to diesel 500 ppm.

And sulfur is a lubricant and corrosion inhibitor, how would that effect TBN in a bad way?

Are you talking about carbon? That's an abrasive. I could see a direct injection engine having problems with carbon saturating the oil, causing long term problems.

Nope.
Sulfur levels in today's diesel is MAX 15ppm. In gas is MAX 30ppm (going to 10ppm as of 01/01/2017).
Due to direct injection there is dilution of oil that happens because of fuel that ends up in oil. That sulfur is basically destroying TBN.
As for carbon, yes, it huge problem on DI engines. Some engines have less issues some more issues, but it is there. First, there is no washing of intake valves by mixture of fuel and air. Then it depends how intake manifold is designed (known VW issues).
However, FORD ecoboost engines are known as oil diluters, so using bit heavier oil in my opinion is imperative.


Yeah I keep reading that direct injection engines are tough on oil, I think I'm seeing a little of that myself with my car...after 5,000 miles the car starts to use oil. So I'm keeping my intervals between 5-7k, tops.

The intake valves are a problem on a lot of DI cars and with people extending oil change intervals on these engines I wonder what problems we'll be seeing long term. I think some problems we are seeing is ring issues with a lot of manufacturers. I've read that the rings are loser in the cylinder bore to reduce friction and increase fuel savings...and the oil consumption is a big issue. Honda, GM, Audi, BMW and others have had recalls or warranty extensions because of it. That was unheard of years ago, now newer engines are being opened up and major surgery is taking place. All for the improvement of a half a gallon of fuel economy improvement.
 
Originally Posted By: doublebase
after 5,000 miles the car starts to use oil. So I'm keeping my intervals between 5-7k, tops.

Your engine uses oil uniformly throughout the OCI, even when oil is completely fresh, not after 5,000 miles. It appears that way because the oil dipsticks are nonlinear.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: doublebase
after 5,000 miles the car starts to use oil. So I'm keeping my intervals between 5-7k, tops.

Your engine uses oil uniformly throughout the OCI, even when oil is completely fresh, not after 5,000 miles. It appears that way because the oil dipsticks are nonlinear.


All I know is that when I check it at 1,000 miles the oil level is right on the "full" line. When I check it at 2,000 miles it's right at the "full" line. When I check it at 3,000 miles it's right at the "full" line. When I check it at 4,000 miles it's right at the "full" line.

Then when I check it at 5,000 miles it's about halfway between full and add. I add half a quart. I check it at 6,000 miles and it's halfway between full and add. I add half a quart. I check it between 6,000-7,000 miles more often and I'm adding a little here, a little there.

So for the first 4,000 miles the car doesn't lose anything based on the readings of the dipstick...measured on the same level surface and a cold engine every single time. After that? It needs to be topped off consistently.

I'm 2,500 miles in on an oil change right now, I've pulled the dipstick 3 times and the level hasn't moved one single bit...dead on level full. And I'll keep checking it as I always do - I'm fully expecting it to do what it usually does - start using oil after 4,000 miles. It seems to either thin out, shear...I don't know?? After that number, but whatever it is, it doesn't do it the first 4,000 miles. I know that sounds funny, but perhaps the oil loses its NOACK properties over that range and evaporate a little? I do basically the same commute everyday...80 miles, all highway....another 100 on country roads during the weekend. Very little stop and go driving. Easy driving all the time. This oil thing never changes...there's threads a mile long on clublexus.com about others experiencing the same thing.
 
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