Friction Reducer

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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
More like a Zmax fiasco.
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Originally Posted By: SpencerHSS
If I were to use this product, what would I look for specifically to be impressed? What would (or could) I see that would tell me it works?

By reducing friction inside the engine it reduces wear, noise, vibration and heat. Quieter/smoother running engine, cooler operating temperatures and a bump in MPG. Please refer to product page or other comments in the first page of this thread for other benefits and effects.



Reducing friction and wear are many times mutually exclusive.
 
Originally Posted By: SpencerHSS
Hello MolaKule, thanks for your comment. I’m one of the Web Developers that work within the Marketing team. I reached out to Kevin, our lead Chemical Engineer, for some of these questions. His responses and mine are separated below.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Most esters are polar as most of the BITOG members know.

Spencer: Our site is written for a general audience, some people that come to the site might know that esters are polar, some viewers do not know that they are polar. I apologize if you believe some of the content is unneeded, but unfortunately it was not written with only the BITOG members in mind.

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Ever heard of buffers and metal deactivators/inhibitors?

Kevin: Yes, I have.
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If TMP decanoate is not an EP agent then why not just state that it acts as an Anti-Wear (AW) agent? If not an AW agent then just say it is a friction reducer. More unnecessary verbiage and fluff.

Kevin: We do. That is what we try to convey, even the product name is Friction Reducer.
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Not all polymers or polymer esters will thicken an oil. Ever heard of the Kentjenlube polymers?

Kevin: Yes, we have Kentjenlube on the shelf in the lab. We did not attempt to make a blanket statement that all polymer or polymer ester additives will thicken oil, we noted in the product description that this product is not a polymer additive, this was intended to clear any confusion that it thickens the oil to do its job.
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What happens when you dilute the AW additives in commercially formulated motor oil; does Friction Reducer have a supplemental AW additive to make up for this deficiency?

Kevin: No it does not require a supplemental AW additive. Extensive testing has proven that that the treat ratio helps the synergy of the ABD package already there. No additional additive is needed. For instance, we just had ASTM G133 ran on Rotella by itself as well as Rotella with the recommended dosage of Friction Reducer. Test conditions were as follows: 200rpm for 40,000 cycles, 10mm stroke, 50N force, oil heated to 88 degrees Celsius. Wear scar was measured at 8350 mm2 with the Rotella by itself, Rotella with the Friction Reducer lowered wear scar to 6140 mm2, a 26.5% reduction in wear.
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Anything can be said, but where are the SAE journal or tribology papers that support this statement?

Kevin: We are a contributing, active member of the STLE, we regularly attend meetings and review journals. Unfortunately, we do not typically publish our data because it gives everyone else in our industry the confidential details of our formula and test results. We have had competitors in our industry attempt to replicate our formulas in the past, for now our results and findings are confidential.
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A lubricant containing 100% ester becomes a 100% ester lube, but you need an additive package with a whole host of chemistries to supplement any base lube.

Kevin: Correct, which is why we don’t recommend using it above a 10% dosage rate in a fully formulated oil. The product page says to not exceed 7.5%. The product label specifies a 5% treatment ratio.
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So are you saying that there is a net equilibrium of charges at the surface?

Kevin: Not quite sure what you are asking here.
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How does it increase fluid flow and what government standards are being met?

Kevin: Friction Reducer increases flow by reducing the friction along passageways, tubes and hoses that oil travels through. This has been proven both in lab tests and real world tests. It meets all government standards meaning that there are no harmful chemicals or products in the Friction Reducer. Friction Reducer does not use chemicals that need reported according to SARA 302. It does not exceed the threshold of reporting levels in SARA 313, and it is ranked as an acute health hazard according to SARA 311 and 312. It follows U.S. state regulations including Pennsylvania Right to Know, New Jersey Right to Know and California Prop 65. It is in accordance with The Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) Chemical Substance Inventory requirements in the U.S. as well as AICS (Australia), DSL (Canada), IECSC (China), ENCS (Japan), ISHL (Japan), KECI (Korea), NZIoC (New Zealand), and PICCS (Philippines). As well as various other standards.


Spencer: It is obvious that you have a great grasp of the products and industry testing standards. If you would be interested, I would be more than happy to arrange a call with Chris (CEO/President) and Kevin (our lead Chemical Engineer) for you. In fact, when I printed off this discussion to ask Kevin for insight he instantly recognized your username from forums and white papers/documents you have written in the past. They would be more than happy to explain these answers in more detail, as well as answer any other questions you might have regarding Friction Reducer or any of the other products. As per forum rules I cannot promote, link or otherwise encourage another message board or chat, but if you PM me we can set up a phone call or I can provide contact information. We could record the phone conversation for here or we can continue a discussion on this thread if you would prefer that, but I'm afraid I'm not as knowledgeable as Kevin and Chris would be so my responses might be delayed compared to directly communicating with them. My response contains purely informational intent, with no intention of being promotional. Thank you for your time MolaKule.


LoOk, Mola is peeling off the banana... kkk
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
http://www.hotshotsecret.com/shop/friction-reducer/

B-O-F, Is this the product?


While this product is interesting, I came across another that has quite a few racers, truckers, etc. raving about. It is definitely an under-the-radar product. It is called NMF. The videos are homemade and definitely low-budget. But the demos are impressive.

They state that it is not a lubricant. It works on the principle of making the metal negatively charged so that particles do not attract to surfaces that increases friction resulting in much less friction, less heat, and therefore less wear.

I'm sure I'll see a lot of flack about this but I'm going to try it. What the heck. The site is gonmf.com.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
SpencerHSS said:
An attached layer of anything in a pipe or channel or orifice assumes the Inside Diameter of the orifice is reduced and thus flow velocity would decrease, unless of course, you have a specially shaped channel such as a diffuser or other specially shaped stream-wise (aerodynamic) modifier.



I am not going to imply that my understanding of this subject is anywhere near as comprehensive as MolaKule who clearly is knowledgeable. I'm just trying to wrap my head around all this with an open mind.

Just considering the quote above, I'm not sure flow velocity decreases necessarily due to a minor reduction in ID.

For instance, suppose ID (inside diameter) is 100. If the inner wall had zero irregularities (perfectly smooth) the flow rate (FR) would be 100.

However, nothing is perfect and thus suppose there are irregularities of the inner wall (IW). This would introduce turbulence/drag. FR = 90.

Now assume ID is reduced by application of some kind of attached film to the IW that decrease the ID by some small percentage. This film, however, effectively reduces the irregularities of the IW thus reducing turbulence/drag significantly.

Thus, let's say ID is now reduced to 98. Yet the improvement in the IW decreases resistance by drag thus increases FR.

Just thinking.
 
Originally Posted By: Riqrat
They state that it is not a lubricant. It works on the principle of making the metal negatively charged so that particles do not attract to surfaces that increases friction resulting in much less friction, less heat, and therefore less wear.


That pegs my b.s. meter right there in the extreme right corner of the dial.

Metals are conductive so how do they get charged in this way? The surface of the camshaft or any other internal component is not insulated from any other.

The lack of any basic physics knowledge is what sells this garbage, pure and simple.
 
Your already using pennzoil platinum which is a friction reducing product. Aside from a select few, nothing much else is gonna reduce it marginal enough to notice. You could add a fuel additive like redline si1 or gumout all in one which HAVE friction modifiers in them but it too will give small improvements in well maintained cars. Clean your car out and dont carry what you dont need will provide a Friction Reducer. Sounds like it reduces the amount of money you have,but increases the friction once your spouse sees what you blew her inheritance money on.
 
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