Motorcycle engine oil devolopment
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Everything about current rice rockets is just amazing. On the basis of dollars to thrills a 100 horsepower motorcycle is tough to beat.
Motorcycle oil has a tough job and modern synthetic motorcycle oil is an amazing product.
It's difficult to imagine a faster bike than a current bike but next year's bike will be faster.
In 1960 there was a magazine article about the 650cc Triumph Bonneville. It weighed 380 pounds and had 40 horsepower. The article stated that 40 horsepower was all that anyone could possibly use and the bike was a rocket. And the oil of the day had all it could handle.
Today 40 horsepower is a scooter and 650cc bikes have as much as 100 horsepower and are quite a bit faster and the oil is expected to do its job without any fuss.
Motorcycle oil has a tough job and modern synthetic motorcycle oil is an amazing product.
It's difficult to imagine a faster bike than a current bike but next year's bike will be faster.
In 1960 there was a magazine article about the 650cc Triumph Bonneville. It weighed 380 pounds and had 40 horsepower. The article stated that 40 horsepower was all that anyone could possibly use and the bike was a rocket. And the oil of the day had all it could handle.
Today 40 horsepower is a scooter and 650cc bikes have as much as 100 horsepower and are quite a bit faster and the oil is expected to do its job without any fuss.
You said it all OneEyeJack;
Anything to do with music, sports and motorcycles is at the leading edge of technology, and the automotive sector is just beginning to catch up.
Yamaha, for example is the #2 brand in grand pianos, and has a 5 valve cylinder head motorcycle engine.
I wonder if the current generation know who to thank for all this technology?
Anything to do with music, sports and motorcycles is at the leading edge of technology, and the automotive sector is just beginning to catch up.
Yamaha, for example is the #2 brand in grand pianos, and has a 5 valve cylinder head motorcycle engine.
I wonder if the current generation know who to thank for all this technology?
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
You said it all OneEyeJack;
Yamaha, for example is the #2 brand in grand pianos, and has a 5 valve cylinder head motorcycle engine.
I wonder if the current generation know who to thank for all this technology?
Yamaha has had 5 valve head technology for quite a while. The 1998 YZ had a "revolutionary" 5 valve head, and Doug Henry won the AMA Motocross championship on it first year out. Henry was not a small guy, and it still hauled his booty faster than any one else. Yam switched from steel to Ti valves in 2000, extending the engines RPM limit past the initial 11,600 RPM for the steelies.
You said it all OneEyeJack;
Yamaha, for example is the #2 brand in grand pianos, and has a 5 valve cylinder head motorcycle engine.
I wonder if the current generation know who to thank for all this technology?
Yamaha has had 5 valve head technology for quite a while. The 1998 YZ had a "revolutionary" 5 valve head, and Doug Henry won the AMA Motocross championship on it first year out. Henry was not a small guy, and it still hauled his booty faster than any one else. Yam switched from steel to Ti valves in 2000, extending the engines RPM limit past the initial 11,600 RPM for the steelies.
That came out w/ the old 750 Fazer in, what, 1986? '85?
John.
John.
Jeez guys, Ferrari had 5-valve heads a long time back. It ain't just motorcycles ...
Originally Posted By: Reg# 43897
That came out w/ the old 750 Fazer in, what, 1986? '85?
John.
In the States it was the FZ750 in '85
But Peugeot had a 5-valve head in their Grand Prix car in 1921.
That came out w/ the old 750 Fazer in, what, 1986? '85?
John.
In the States it was the FZ750 in '85
But Peugeot had a 5-valve head in their Grand Prix car in 1921.
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Call me cynical but I thought this punchline was kind of revealing, though not surprising (my italics):-
"Stricter emissions standards, new industry specifications and manufacturer advances are all combining to make dedicated motorcycle oils a necessity. And an opportunity no oil marketer should ignore."
IOW, now maybe we can scare them into NOT using HDEO and buying this MUCH more expensive stuff.
"Stricter emissions standards, new industry specifications and manufacturer advances are all combining to make dedicated motorcycle oils a necessity. And an opportunity no oil marketer should ignore."
IOW, now maybe we can scare them into NOT using HDEO and buying this MUCH more expensive stuff.
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I can see the hurdle Lubrizol is facing developing an engine oil that must be compatible with
emission equipment, wet clutch and shared transmission use.
Like a new drug, the R&D costs will be reflected in the product for the first few years.
Final price will depend on the package size and levels of profit added to the engine oil.
Let's see what happens if Berkshire Hathaway, the owner of Lubrizol buys the Petro-Canada lubrication division,
with it's 800,000,000 L/year capacity.
emission equipment, wet clutch and shared transmission use.
Like a new drug, the R&D costs will be reflected in the product for the first few years.
Final price will depend on the package size and levels of profit added to the engine oil.
Let's see what happens if Berkshire Hathaway, the owner of Lubrizol buys the Petro-Canada lubrication division,
with it's 800,000,000 L/year capacity.
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Originally Posted By: userfriendly
I can see the hurdle Lubrizol is facing developing an engine oil that must be compatible with
emission equipment, wet clutch and shared transmission use.
Like a new drug, the R&D costs will be reflected in the product for the first few years.
Are post-catalytic (car) anti-wear agents incompatible with wet clutch and shared transmission?
I can see how friction modifiers would be. I dont know anything about how the ZDDP replacements would interact with a wet clutch, but neither are exactly new technology so I'd guess a lot of people have tried it.
I've had no trouble so far using SJ oil (which I believe is post-catalytic, though not recent) with a wet clutch.
I can see the hurdle Lubrizol is facing developing an engine oil that must be compatible with
emission equipment, wet clutch and shared transmission use.
Like a new drug, the R&D costs will be reflected in the product for the first few years.
Are post-catalytic (car) anti-wear agents incompatible with wet clutch and shared transmission?
I can see how friction modifiers would be. I dont know anything about how the ZDDP replacements would interact with a wet clutch, but neither are exactly new technology so I'd guess a lot of people have tried it.
I've had no trouble so far using SJ oil (which I believe is post-catalytic, though not recent) with a wet clutch.
Are they tying to say they are creating an lubricating oil that will work in the motor and the transmission? That will prevent engine wear and make motorcycles last years longer then they do now? And it will be different then whats available right now, from hundreds of oil companies? What will they think of next?. Bikes that fly?.,,,,
Big Cahuna, my girlfriend is a vegetarian, which pretty much makes me one.
Lubrizol doesn't make engine oil, just the additive packages.
I could name maybe 6 or 7 such companies.
Here is Chevron's;
https://www.oronite.com/
Lubrizol doesn't make engine oil, just the additive packages.
I could name maybe 6 or 7 such companies.
Here is Chevron's;
https://www.oronite.com/
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Are they tying to say they are creating an lubricating oil that will work in the motor and the transmission? That will prevent engine wear and make motorcycles last years longer then they do now? And it will be different then whats available right now, from hundreds of oil companies? What will they think of next?. Bikes that fly?.,,,,
Bikes with a separate gearbox, BMW style.
Are they tying to say they are creating an lubricating oil that will work in the motor and the transmission? That will prevent engine wear and make motorcycles last years longer then they do now? And it will be different then whats available right now, from hundreds of oil companies? What will they think of next?. Bikes that fly?.,,,,
Bikes with a separate gearbox, BMW style.
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Originally Posted By: userfriendly
You said it all OneEyeJack;
Anything to do with music, sports and motorcycles is at the leading edge of technology, and the automotive sector is just beginning to catch up.
Yamaha, for example is the #2 brand in grand pianos, and has a 5 valve cylinder head motorcycle engine.
I wonder if the current generation know who to thank for all this technology?
I disagree. I think motorcycle tech is catching up to automotive. Case in point, variable valve timing has been around in cars for a while but is just now showing up on motorcycles. Motorcycle EFI is also behind automotive, with few if any bikes using the more efficient Mass Air Flow method and using Speed Density instead.
But I do agree that more technology is being packed into motorcycles now than before. The Bosch inertial sensor tech has fostered the introduction of lean-angle modulated ABS for instance or cornering ABS as it's being called.
You said it all OneEyeJack;
Anything to do with music, sports and motorcycles is at the leading edge of technology, and the automotive sector is just beginning to catch up.
Yamaha, for example is the #2 brand in grand pianos, and has a 5 valve cylinder head motorcycle engine.
I wonder if the current generation know who to thank for all this technology?
I disagree. I think motorcycle tech is catching up to automotive. Case in point, variable valve timing has been around in cars for a while but is just now showing up on motorcycles. Motorcycle EFI is also behind automotive, with few if any bikes using the more efficient Mass Air Flow method and using Speed Density instead.
But I do agree that more technology is being packed into motorcycles now than before. The Bosch inertial sensor tech has fostered the introduction of lean-angle modulated ABS for instance or cornering ABS as it's being called.
LoneRanger; Do you think there is much of a future for 2-stroke engines, or has technology stood still in their development?
Outboard marine engines and snowmobiles mostly.
I would guess that you bought a Ducati in part for it's unique DVT, yet to my knowledge never tried in an automotive engine..
Outboard marine engines and snowmobiles mostly.
I would guess that you bought a Ducati in part for it's unique DVT, yet to my knowledge never tried in an automotive engine..
The thing driving 2-strokes out is pollution regs. That is also the only reason to consider mass flow intake air sensors. MAP is simpler, cheaper, and IME more reliable, so bikes will stay with that until emissions regs force them to greater complexity. At present, motorcycles have more lax emissions requirements than cars. That seems to be changing, however.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Are post-catalytic (car) anti-wear agents incompatible with wet clutch and shared transmission?
I can see how friction modifiers would be. I dont know anything about how the ZDDP replacements would interact with a wet clutch, but neither are exactly new technology so I'd guess a lot of people have tried it.
I've had no trouble so far using SJ oil (which I believe is post-catalytic, though not recent) with a wet clutch.
ZDDP doesn't have much if any effect on most wet clutches. Other than that, it depends. Some AW agents do effect wet clutch engagement and some don't. Formulators know which ones can be used and which ones can't. When new additives are introduced, they are evaluated for their effects on a lot of properties. I ask for frictional data on wet clutch applications whenever an additive manufacturer proposes a new product before I'll even accept a sample most of the time.
Are post-catalytic (car) anti-wear agents incompatible with wet clutch and shared transmission?
I can see how friction modifiers would be. I dont know anything about how the ZDDP replacements would interact with a wet clutch, but neither are exactly new technology so I'd guess a lot of people have tried it.
I've had no trouble so far using SJ oil (which I believe is post-catalytic, though not recent) with a wet clutch.
ZDDP doesn't have much if any effect on most wet clutches. Other than that, it depends. Some AW agents do effect wet clutch engagement and some don't. Formulators know which ones can be used and which ones can't. When new additives are introduced, they are evaluated for their effects on a lot of properties. I ask for frictional data on wet clutch applications whenever an additive manufacturer proposes a new product before I'll even accept a sample most of the time.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
In 1960 there was a magazine article about the 650cc Triumph Bonneville. It weighed 380 pounds and had 40 horsepower. The article stated that 40 horsepower was all that anyone could possibly use and the bike was a rocket.
I'd guess most current sports screamers will get crashed long before engine wear becomes an issue, so maybe the 1960's article had a point. 40 HP is certainly adequate for scaring the [censored] out of me.
In 1960 there was a magazine article about the 650cc Triumph Bonneville. It weighed 380 pounds and had 40 horsepower. The article stated that 40 horsepower was all that anyone could possibly use and the bike was a rocket.
I'd guess most current sports screamers will get crashed long before engine wear becomes an issue, so maybe the 1960's article had a point. 40 HP is certainly adequate for scaring the [censored] out of me.
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