Vehicles that retain quality after 8-10 years

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Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
For reliability no marker can touch Toyota/Lexus.

That's strange, they were leading the way not too long ago in recalls, #1 in total recalls actually.

They're the ones that paid a 1.2 billion penalty for that unintended acceleration problem. How soon some people forget.

Do you have any document from a reputable company that says brand X is more reliable than Toyota/Lexus for the last 20+ years ?

JD Power study in 2015 of model year 2012:

Quote:
J.D. Power just released its annual Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS). This closely monitored report gives automakers and consumers a good idea of how well the industry is doing when it comes to quality.

VDS focuses on long-term reliability by monitoring defects, malfunctions and design-related issues with three-year old vehicles still being driven by their original owners. Dependability is scored in problems per 100 vehicles. In other words, its a look at the most reliable car brands.

The latest installment of this survey covers issues with cars and trucks from the 2012 model year. It dovetails neatly with the firm’s Initial Quality Study, which monitors problems reported during the first three months of ownership.


Quote:
So, how did car companies do overall? Well, here are the 10 highest-ranked automakers in the 2015 J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study based on how they fared over a three-year period.

1. Lexus

Lexus topped all rivals with a jaw-dropping score of just 89 problems per 100 vehicles. That’s an industry-leading performance, but what do you expect from Toyota’s luxury division? Their ES was the top-rated compact premium car while the GX was the No. 1 midsize premium SUV. Their CT and RX were both strong competitor as well. This is the fourth consecutive year Lexus has been the best in J.D. Power’s Vehicle Dependability Study.


Quote:

3. Toyota

Toyota is always a surefire bet when it comes to quality and 2015 is no exception. This mainstream brand finished in the No. 3 spot with a stellar score of just 111 problems per 100 vehicles. Additionally its Corolla compact car and Sienna minivan won their respective categories and plenty of other segments had Toyota models on the podium.


http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/03/top-10-most-reliable-car-brands.html

If you spend sometime searching for CR report of automaker reliability you will find similar result.

Your personal bias opinion is valid to yourself, nobody in the world listen to you.
 
The 05 Kitacamry is still nice and tight...well almost...that pesky rear strut mount needs replacing...it rides better than new ...with the 17" rims and good tires.
 
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
My B2300 still has the tortured spine jarring ride it had 10 years and 108K miles ago.


lol.gif


Depending on how they are equipped, the ride can get pretty rough. The worst riding vehicle I have had on this platform was a 2001 4 cyl Ranger with "payload package 2." That truck was one bouncy little ox cart.

My 2002 Super Cab on the other hand is surprisingly smooth. I have taken it on 14 hour road trips and it didn't wear me out at all. It's excellent on the highway for what it is...feels more like a Crown Vic than a pickup sometimes. This truck looks pretty beat up on the outside, and whenever I drive someone who hasn't ridden in it before, they almost always say something about how smooth it rides.

My 1994 Ranger has great ride and NVH for a 22 year old pickup, but it does start to wear you out some after a few hours, and it's a very noticeable difference from the Super Cab truck. Not as bad as my 2001 2WD though.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
For reliability no marker can touch Toyota/Lexus.

That's strange, they were leading the way not too long ago in recalls, #1 in total recalls actually.

They're the ones that paid a 1.2 billion penalty for that unintended acceleration problem. How soon some people forget.

Do you have any document from a reputable company that says brand X is more reliable than Toyota/Lexus for the last 20+ years ?

JD Power study in 2015 of model year 2012:

Quote:
J.D. Power just released its annual Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS). This closely monitored report gives automakers and consumers a good idea of how well the industry is doing when it comes to quality.

VDS focuses on long-term reliability by monitoring defects, malfunctions and design-related issues with three-year old vehicles still being driven by their original owners. Dependability is scored in problems per 100 vehicles. In other words, its a look at the most reliable car brands.

The latest installment of this survey covers issues with cars and trucks from the 2012 model year. It dovetails neatly with the firm’s Initial Quality Study, which monitors problems reported during the first three months of ownership.


Quote:
So, how did car companies do overall? Well, here are the 10 highest-ranked automakers in the 2015 J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study based on how they fared over a three-year period.

1. Lexus

Lexus topped all rivals with a jaw-dropping score of just 89 problems per 100 vehicles. That’s an industry-leading performance, but what do you expect from Toyota’s luxury division? Their ES was the top-rated compact premium car while the GX was the No. 1 midsize premium SUV. Their CT and RX were both strong competitor as well. This is the fourth consecutive year Lexus has been the best in J.D. Power’s Vehicle Dependability Study.


Quote:

3. Toyota

Toyota is always a surefire bet when it comes to quality and 2015 is no exception. This mainstream brand finished in the No. 3 spot with a stellar score of just 111 problems per 100 vehicles. Additionally its Corolla compact car and Sienna minivan won their respective categories and plenty of other segments had Toyota models on the podium.


http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/03/top-10-most-reliable-car-brands.html

If you spend sometime searching for CR report of automaker reliability you will find similar result.

Your personal bias opinion is valid to yourself, nobody in the world listen to you.


Why did you edit out #2? Sounds like GM builds a better mousetrap than most. (I believe that is the phrase you like to use.)

Quote:
2. Buick

That’s not a Buick! Well actually, it is. The tri-shield brand performed admirably, coming in second place with a score of 110. This is three positions better than it did last year. Underscoring this performance, the LaCrosse was the top-rated large car, beating Toyota’s Avalon and the Ford Taurus, which finished in second and third, respectively.
 
Mercury Grand Marquis and crown vics are great cars.. Toyota Corolla and Avalons.. Hyundai also makes a few good ones as does Ford... BMW Mercedes and Range Rover are all Money Pits.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Why did you edit out #2? Sounds like GM builds a better mousetrap than most. (I believe that is the phrase you like to use.)

2. Buick

That’s not a Buick! Well actually, it is. The tri-shield brand performed admirably, coming in second place with a score of 110. This is three positions better than it did last year. Underscoring this performance, the LaCrosse was the top-rated large car, beating Toyota’s Avalon and the Ford Taurus, which finished in second and third, respectively.

I didn't edit out number 2 of the year 2015. I just listed the ranking of Toyota and Lexus of the year 2015 by JD Power.

If you look at reliability of the last 20 years, on average Toyota and Lexus ranked higher than any other company.

If you look at the cars my family currently own there is no Toyota/Lexus vehicle. I have no reason to bias for them, but I can't deny the fact that they are more reliable than anyone else.

If you take a look at Buick average reliability ranking of the last 20 years, they were nowhere near Toyota or Honda.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

If you take a look at Buick average reliability ranking of the last 20 years, they were nowhere near Toyota or Honda.


The link you provided puts Buick as the second most reliable brand.

Let me guess, the positive data for Lexus/Toyota is to be held up as gospel, but any GM positive data is to be disregarded?
 
Originally Posted By: drtyler
Our Cobalt has 305,000 miles on it.

Last year, I replaced the steering rack, tie rod ends, and the connecting joint between the rack and steering wheel (I forget the proper term for this). The joint was worn out. After this, the car drives like new.

Suspension feels wallowy most likely because of worn control arm bushings, ball joints, and struts/shocks.

But to answer your question, hard to go wrong with a Lexus or BMW if you want a quality feel for long term. Mercedes used to be like this, but I'm unfamiliar with the newer models and how well they are aging.

These very things that are causing your Cobalt to feel old, however, are all wear items. Regardless of the car, some of these will have to be addressed during a 10 year ownership period.



I agree with this....a few upgrades could be plenty of money saved, and add a bit more fun to the car..


My 2006 Cobalt is closing in on 80k, and some parts are starting to show signs of wear. (Struts and shocks held up very well until about 5k ago) Not how like it was for sure...

But with bushings just done, and a full set of shocks and struts, it will handle much, much better. Plan is for monroe or KYB, though I wouldn't mind Sachs (they don't make quick struts) to add a bit more fun to this old Balt.


Just because it's old and a beater does not mean I have to treat it like one. I would just collect some parts for your Balt and to a bit of updating/upgrading. Should make a better car, and let you guys save for a new car instead....
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

If you take a look at Buick average reliability ranking of the last 20 years, they were nowhere near Toyota or Honda.

The link you provided puts Buick as the second most reliable brand.

Let me guess, the positive data for Lexus/Toyota is to be held up as gospel, but any GM positive data is to be disregarded?

My respond was for Wolf359, he posted about Toyota unintended acceleration problem few years ago, and numerous recalls the last few years.

Buick as a brand is much better the last few years, JD Power 2015 reliability ranking of 2012 model year is an example.

But, when we talk about car reliability we should looking at long term, i.e, 10-20 years. I can bet you dinner for two that on average of the last 20 years Toyota is more reliable than Buick, actually Toyota is much more reliable than Buick by at least 2-3 positions.

Toyota's reputation is so high such that their vehicles retain much higher percentage than Buick after 2-3 years and 5-10 years too.

Just take a look on KBB price of 2010 Toyota Avalon vs compatible 2010 Buick model with similar MSRP, which one has higher resale value ?
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Just take a look on KBB price of 2010 Toyota Avalon vs compatible 2010 Buick model with similar MSRP, which one has higher resale value ?


I'll take a 2010 LaCrosse over any 2010 Toyota. If the resale is lower, all the better - I can get it at a deal. If I bought it new in 2010, I had 6 years to enjoy a better driving automobile.

2010-buick-lacrosse-03.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: daves87rs

I agree with this....a few upgrades could be plenty of money saved, and add a bit more fun to the car..


My 2006 Cobalt is closing in on 80k, and some parts are starting to show signs of wear. (Struts and shocks held up very well until about 5k ago) Not how like it was for sure...

But with bushings just done, and a full set of shocks and struts, it will handle much, much better. Plan is for monroe or KYB, though I wouldn't mind Sachs (they don't make quick struts) to add a bit more fun to this old Balt.


Just because it's old and a beater does not mean I have to treat it like one. I would just collect some parts for your Balt and to a bit of updating/upgrading. Should make a better car, and let you guys save for a new car instead....

I've definitely considered this, and being a pretty frugal person I almost feel bad for not considering it more.

However, the fact is that my Cobalt is a base model and I'm constantly annoyed by the lack of power windows and the fact that I have to use an FM modulator to listen to my phone or iPod in the car means that I'm really ready for something new.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
BMW... also stays looking classy. Something about beemers and 'cedes they age well as far as styling goes. Ten yr old beemer still looks classy.


Yes, my M5 aged well, as has my sister's 330i. But one needs to be cognizant of the scheduled maintenance and parts replacement with these cars (bimmers, benzes and Audi's) that add to the overall cost of the car during its lifetime.


Here German cars (BMW, VW, Audi and MB, Porsche not so much) tend to die young. I'm told its a combination of heat, environmentally friendly plastics that degrade, poor design for maintenance, and poor (Taiwanese) maintenance. This is probably a relatively harsh environment, though.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/03/top-10-most-reliable-car-brands.html

If you spend sometime searching for CR report of automaker reliability you will find similar result.

Your personal bias opinion is valid to yourself, nobody in the world listen to you.


CR has their own set of bias, lots of people here don't fancy their conclusions. Remember, their data is based on people who subscribe to their publication. That has it's own self selecting built in bias.

Anyway if you want to talk about reliability that also includes driving a car that doesn't have a bunch of safety defects that will end up getting you killed. I'd rather drive a less "reliable" car that doesn't have safety defects. JD powers is just ranking dependability, they're not factoring in likely hood of getting killed in the car due to safety defects.

You have to know how to read a study and do your own critical thinking.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I'll take a 2010 LaCrosse over any 2010 Toyota. If the resale is lower, all the better - I can get it at a deal. If I bought it new in 2010, I had 6 years to enjoy a better driving automobile.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
CR has their own set of bias, lots of people here don't fancy their conclusions. Remember, their data is based on people who subscribe to their publication. That has it's own self selecting built in bias.

Anyway if you want to talk about reliability that also includes driving a car that doesn't have a bunch of safety defects that will end up getting you killed. I'd rather drive a less "reliable" car that doesn't have safety defects. JD powers is just ranking dependability, they're not factoring in likely hood of getting killed in the car due to safety defects.

You have to know how to read a study and do your own critical thinking.

When we strictly talking about long term reliability all data available from various studies point to Toyota/Lexus as the most reliable brand.

Their resale value are higher, their new vehicles sale are on top of the best selling list year after year. All of this is because their vehicles are more reliable than others.

Just take a look at current Toyota Camry, is it better or cheaper than others in its class ? Why it is the best selling family sedan in US for many years ?

All these are facts, not someone's imagination.

Majority of consumers don't care about driving dynamic, they don't care about how the car look either, they like to be able to start the car in the morning and drive it to work, and start the car again in the evening and drive home. Toyota just provided this requirement year after year, that why they sold more cars than anyone else.

Again, I currently don't have any Toyota and/or Lexus vehicle, I had Lexus LS400 before and sold it few months ago. I am not planning to buy a Toyota and/or a Lexus soon. I don't have any reason to bias toward Toyota/Lexus. Actually I hate all new Toyota/Lexus exterior styling, specially the front grill. If someone give me a new Toyota/Lexus car I will sell it and buy something else, probably Mazda 6.
 
Last edited:
This post is not about reliability but vehicles retaining their quality after 8-10 years. As the OP rightfully noted, you get what you pay for most of the time.

I'm not here to argue about Lexus versus other brands but look at the leather seats in a 10 year old Lexus and compare to a BMW of similar age and hours driven under similar size butt and the BMW will be in a far better shape. I think that's what the OP topic is.
 
Every car that we've owned for that length of time was still looking good and driving well.
The key is to take care of it.
Wash it at least once a month and spray out the fender lips and the underbody. This will help to keep rust at bay even in harsh climates.
Do a good interior detail at least a couple of time each year.
It's amazing just how much nicer a clean and uncluttered interior is to drive in.
Avoid known rough roads where you can and where you can't, drive easy. Ignore the jerk behind you. He didn't pay for your car and won't pay for the repairs.
Drive gently most of the time. All of us get the wind up now and then and redline a few gears, but this should not be your normal driving mode.
Enjoy using the car and enjoy having it look good and drive well through a long life.
There was a time when a Benz was the gold standard for long-term reliable and durable performance. That time has long since passed and today's lower end Mercedes cars like the E or C class are a poor substitute for something like a W123.
 
Havent really owned many cars (Less than 10) but i can say that the only car that have really felt like a tank was the BMW E39 5 Series.
We owned one for more than 10 years and that thing was rattle free and felt better and more stable than many new cars i've test driven.
It was really built like a tank.
 
I bought my Escape in March of 2007. 9 years and 145k miles later it literally drives like new but I have been on top of replacing suspension parts as required which helps a lot. Interior same as new and only 2 noises ever popped up. My console lid started making some noise so I put a small piece of weather stripping on the lid to take care of that. The other noise was from the left side of the dash against the door. Again, a small piece of weather stripping on the back of one of the plastic dash pieces took care of it.
 
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