Motul Factory Line 300V vs HDEO

[alex_at]

Hi guys,

I recently asked here in the forums about which oil to use in my '15 Suzuki Boulevard C50.
The advice was to take HDEO into consideration - I did.

Based on these numbers: Mobil numbers from pqiamerica.com, Motul 300V numbers from VOA here in the forums:

Zinc: Motul: 915 Mobil: 1012
Phosphorous: Motul: 833 Mobil: 877
Calcium: Motul: 2293 Mobil: 1347
Magnesium: Motul: 5 Mobil: 911
Boron: Motul: 112 Mobil: 65
Moly: Motul: 146 Mobil: 48
TBN: Motul: 8.9 Mobil: 9.66
cSt @ 100°C: Motul: 12.15 Mobil: 14.4


Now, based on the Zinc and Phosphorous numbers the Mobil HDEO wins. Motul's advantage lies in the Boron and Moly content.

The Motul numbers come from a 10W40 oil, the Mobil from 15W50 oil, there's the difference in cSt coming from.
So far Mobil HDEO looks like a very good oil. But Motul, especially 300V is known as one of the best motorcycle oils out there - so where's the hidden advantage? Is it the (Double) ester content?

What's the difference in protection from ester+zddp (Motul) vs ZDDP alone in the HDEO oil?

Can a mineral Diesel oil really be as good as one of the best motorcycle oils on the market?

The above numers from Mobil are from the Mobil1 Super 1300 HDEO oil, but I guess there won't be that much of a difference to Mobil Delvac MX 15W50 - which Is what I'm interested in.

Thanks.

 

[BrocLuno]

There will be a difference. You need to look at the Mobil stuff carefully in the groups. Super is different that Delvac...

The Motul runs very cleanly and will take extreme heat abuse. So if you are planning a desert ride, the Motul is hands down the batter oil. But, if you are not racing Baja, there are a lot of good oils that will do fine in day in and day out use.

HDEO's work well in may MC's. Mobil Delvac 1 would be high on my list, except I have a Harley and it likes even thicker oils

 

[alex_at]

unfortunately I couldn't find any data for the Delvac MX.

Delvac 1 might be a superior HDEO oil, but 5W40 isn't what I need.

10W40 is minimum, better would be 15W40.

Delvac Super 1400 would be an alternative to Delvac MX too, but I don't have any data on either of these oils.

 

[Atesz792]

Couple observations:
Never heared of MX 15w50. Check again, I could be wrong, but it should be 15w40.
Neither of the viscosities you listed match the SAE grades you wrote. In this case, the Motul is a 10w30 right out of the box, which I would not be comfortable running in a low revving big twin.
And for all we know, the Delvac 1300 and MX are two different products sold on different continents, they should be different.

 

[alex_at]

You are right. I mixed up, I meant 15W40 not 15W50.

About the Motul: It's supposed to be a 10W40 -> but based on the data it's more a 10W30 than 10W40.

But there's a 300V 15W50 too, I don't know the exact values of the 15W50. Motul says the cSt @ 100°C for the 300V 15W50 is 17.00mm^2/s. Maybe this is more suitable for me than the 300V 10W40?

These two Delvac's are available to me:

http://www.motoroeldirekt.at/themes/kate...mp;referid=2031


http://www.motoroeldirekt.at/themes/kate...mp;referid=2031

 

[Atesz792]

Out of the 2, the MX carries more modern and demanding specifications.
Also, I have used it, and so far it has provided the longest lasting 'shift feel'. Scientific, I know...
Motul formulates so that the oil is a grade lower by the time you leave your garage. That gets you maybe 1% power gain in the short term. In the long term, using another Motul product, I was not impressed, esp. considering the price tag.
Edit: gotta love their chain lube though. Sticks like crazy! That's all I use on my chain, and have for years.

 

[alex_at]

So in other words the 300V 15W50 is on the low side for a 50? More like a 40 weight?

At least I know - from a test - that their 10W40 is on the low side for a 40 weight. We have seen that in the data from above too.

The 300V 15W50 doesn't sound too bad with a cSt@100°C -> 17 mm^2/s, but I haven't seen an VOA for this oil unfortunately.

 

[Pontual]

You're comparing add pack only, but didn't compared the Main difference between Motul 300 V and Mobil Hdeo: THE BASE OIL CONSTITUENT is way better in Motul. Incomparable.

 

[Atesz792]

Well 50 grade starts at 16.3 so 17 is barely above the limit.
The gears will turn it into a 40 pretty soon, but then you have a 15w40, which is kinda ok for your application. If you don't mind the price ofc.

 

[alex_at]

Ok, so If I go the 300V Route I'll take the 15W50.

What about the 7100 or 5100?

Motul 7100 is available as 10W50 which would fit me too, cSt@100°C is 18 mm°/s.

The part synthtetic 5100 15W50 has a cSt @ 100°C of 17.6 mm^2/s

So based on these values the 7100 would be the way to go.


What alternatives do I have?
Castrol PowerRS Racing 10W50
Mobil1 Racing 4T 10W40
Liqui Moly
Bel-Ray V-Twin?
Vavloline 4T Stroke Full Synthetic

Or the most expensive option: Maxima Extra4, super high ZDDP&Phosphor which might not be the best for my catalytic converter over long time exposure....

Fuchs Silkolene would be an option too, but a few people reported that Silkolene likes to shear down to almost water thin...


The more I think about which oil to use the more complicated it gets. With my old 125cc scooter I just used 300V 5W40 and it ran fine. But now my big VTwin has different needs...

And if that's not enought this engine is known for weak bearings, long full throttle operations are known to cause bearing damage in this engine, so I need an oil to battle this as well....

 

[Atesz792]

Is it under warranty?
Does it require, say, JASO MA?
If so, then go ahead and try one of these.
Valvoline Durablend is a popular choice, too.
If not, I would try an HDEO, see how it does, then decide if you want to keep on using it.

 

[alex_at]

Originally Posted By: Atesz792
Is it under warranty?
Does it require, say, JASO MA?
If so, then go ahead and try one of these.
Valvoline Durablend is a popular choice, too.
If not, I would try an HDEO, see how it does, then decide if you want to keep on using it.


Yes the manual states Jaso MA since the bike has a wet clutch. But according to Bobistheoilguy the HDEO oils work, so its fine for me.

 

[sunruh]

until you actually run each for the same miles in same conditions and have an analysis done, your speculation is not worth spit.

and the results may be shocking.

also do NOT just pour in and go.
you still have an amount in it from the old.
you need to put in 1 batch...run it at least 1000mi and dump it and then do the run of the real test oil.

 

[Atesz792]

Yeah, listen to sunruh, he knows his stuff.
My bike also has a wet clutch but the OM doesn't call for JASO MA.
That's why I was asking.

 

[alex_at]

@sunruh
That's the best solution. But I have to find an oil analysis coming any that offers oil analysis for private persons - and the price has to be right too.

@Atesz792
Which bike do you have?
I have never heard about a bike with a wet clutch not asking for at least Jaso MA

 

[BigCahuna]

Harley oil doesn't have any posted ratings on their bottles. But they recommend their oils for the motor , primary, and transmission. Most motorcycle specific oils also do not have API symbols on them either. Jaso ma spec's are for japanese motorcycles, so you won't find that speced for non -japenese bikes.,,,

 

[alex_at]

I already made my decision, almost:

Today I found a relly good deal on Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W50 motorcyle oil. JASO MA2 and API SH specs.

Now, I know Mobil 1 was (is?) really popular - a lot of people use their motorcycle oil and it's supposed to be good. But then on the other hand a lot of reviews are from that time where Mobil 1 was a real synthetic. The Mobil 1 racing is a semi synthetic SHC synthesis technology oil. How are they today?

It's API SH specced, as far as I know a spec from pre 2000's. Is that still a good oil today?
What about ZDDP and Phosphorous on this oil?



Why I'm asking? This oil retails for around 13-15 US$ for 1L around here, I found it online - maybe on clearance - for 3.85 US$ for 1L - which would be the cheapest oil I have ever bought. And it's Mobil 1 and not some unknown house brand.


Any suggestions on the Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W50 ?

 

[Atesz792]

Known, reputable dealer, right?

 

[alex_at]

I personally don't have any experience with this dealer, but he has a lot of good reviews.

If the bottle is still sealed it should be right, I guess.

The other oils in this shop are priced "normally", Motul 300V 15W50 is 35€ where normally it's around 45-55€

Castrol Power 1 Racing (PowerRS Racing) is normally priced as well.


Only the Mobil 1 is exceptionally cheap.

 

[02SE]

FWIW, I've seen News stories about counterfeit Motor Oil in legitimate looking containers, coming out of Russia. Some of the counterfeit containers they showed looked like genuine Mobil 1 containers.