What's The "Best" Oil Filters ? Looking inside...

[Garak]

Thank you. I think it's a great idea, and a very attractive one. I'm not so sure about its execution yet. We have no idea if this is the real deal, or one of the many, many gimmicks we've seen come and go over the years.

At US$29.99 for two for my G37, and that's not counting shipping or taxes, I'm not trying them anytime soon. Of course, it can be argued that their instructions to leave the oil in for 30,000 miles and changing the filter every 10,000 miles will save me money. That's absolutely correct.

Someone who chooses to use something like Amsoil Signature Series or M1 EP or Castrol Edge gold bottle or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum might be in a good place. I'm not so sure about someone choosing a very basic oil in an application they shouldn't, and trying a 30,000 mile OCI. And you know, some people will try things like that.

My G37 has a 3750 mile severe service interval. I'm not sure a 30,000 mile OCI in it on a generic 5w-30 conventional is a good idea. I'd love to see some UOAs on such an experiment, but I'm far from sold on trying it myself.

In any case, there are many, many people out there who would consider trying a filter with this much promise but would not be comfortable with 30,000 mile OCIs and 10,000 mile FCIs, even those who aren't under warranty. MG does have to realize that there is a market for premium filters for those who do 3,000 mile OCIs, even. Plenty of Fram Ultras never go their 15,000 mile advertised distance. And customers can do that, since Fram hasn't priced the thing out of that market.

If they want to have mainstream acceptance, they're going to either have to prove that their 30,000 mile OCI and 10,000 mile FCI is widely feasible or they have to lower their prices, or, preferably, do both. If they want to remain a niche product for extended OCIs only, I would suggest they would be well served striking up a partnership with someone like Amsoil.

 

[UncleDave]

I enjoy your posts as well Garak,

Seen my share of scam products as well Im pretty confident this isn't one of them.

As for the price - you can get them on sale regularly for between 7 and 9 bones a piece- but you have to buy 2. Not terrible, but not as flexible as others.

Their management team is pretty capable and they are veterans in the filter industry, they seem to have won several fleet contracts with private and govt clients both.

I've run them a while now mixing and matching in place of my other high end filters in autos, using moderately extended OCI and synthetics - Ive done 2 in 20K but never gone the 30. I don't know that Id try it with dino.

Where I use them and push it are in my 2 diesel gensets I approximately double my diesel gensets run time per OCI running them with synthetic oil for thousands of hours a year - saving a bunch of time and money.

For my big diesel keeping as many particles out of the high pressure heui pump can only helpful, but I only run standard OCI's so I run the MG like regular high quality filter.

I haven't switched my Sprinters off MB OEM yet so Im in the air which way I may go if any on these vehicles.

An ultra with a filtermag is probably close performance wise (its thin can is a plus in this set up) and more flexible in purchasing (web, retail, 1 pc vs 2, and in terms of intervals 15 vs 10K its way cheap per mile and really good performance.

Ill continue to mix and match on my autos running all the above combos confident that Im protecting my engines with arguably the number 1 or 2 available combos (mix it any way you want) I don't see anything else in the spin on category that's any better until you get to true bypass which are expensive and prone to plumbing issues, and can be difficult (but certainly not impossible) to achieve ROI on.

Id like to see the same tests everyone does, but find their construction, patents, design and use of PTFE tech compelling and tests performed by at least one poster enough to believe its a contender.

Its interesting that their claim is a "regimen" vs specific filtering performance.


UD

PS: Had a 06 G35- love the G's in general and the Nissan VQ 6's. When wife# 2 showed up with teenagers the Rx400H got swapped in place.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Seen my share of scam products as well Im pretty confident this isn't one of them.

As for the price - you can get them on sale regularly for between 7 and 9 bones a piece- but you have to buy 2. Not terrible, but not as flexible as others.

I hope it's the real deal. Like I said, it's a great idea and the current players could use some competition, both in the bypass side of things and in the full flow segment.

As for pricing and availability, that always remains to be seen, at least up here. Some markets are small, and sometimes a company either ignores the market or has to be creative to enter it. Personally, I have no problem with the idea of buying a couple at a time. That's not a deal breaker at all. In fact, I prefer to have one on the shelf.

I still would love to see more data, and see how these things pan out in an extended OCI. I wish I could volunteer.

 

[UncleDave]

I would think since it mail order only it wouldn't matter where you live you could participate in the sale. But then again Canada blocks some websites and some companies don't want to deal with shipping to canada and customs so maybe not.

I can only speak for what I've witnessed over the last couple years, but typically every major American holiday there is a sale, or about every three months they run a 2 filter special. for half off their normal retail price. Well under the threshold that I would go through a 2 pack in.

I'll be watching dbmasters ongoing tests and continuing to cut them open myself after each run just to see what I see.

UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Untrue there is "nothing" from MG - on their site they make a claim of 2 micron filtering.


If the Ultra can do 80% @ 5 microns, then it can also do something less than 80% @ 2 microns. Therefore, Fram could also claim their filter 'catches particles down to 2 microns'.

If Microgreen can't give an overall filter efficiency % at 2 microns (and a test method) then unfortunately their claim is pretty much nebulous.


It's totally reasonable to conclude the Ultra will do 80% @ 5 microns. I don't beleive Jay would knowingly ever lead us astray. Fram could publish that but they choose not to.

They choose to print the claim 99.9@ 20 and 15K miles.
Im confident it does which is one of the reasons why I use them.
It's my single stage of choice and one of the real bargains in the market today.

Fram doesn't claim a 30K sump life over 3 filter though. This is a unique claim and fundamental different than selling on efficiency spec. (close to amsoils old claim with hyper expensive oil)

Microgreen doesn't give the overall efficiency @ 2%. They don't divulge the iso chapters or test results. I'd like to see its test numbers all over the board for it.

Question though - is it reasonable to conclude they can meet their claim when looking at the tech they use given the data we do have and what we can all go research on our own in 10 minutes?

If I couldn't go find PTFE filter media the worked at the absolute claimed rate I would be very skeptical - but I can and so can everyone here.

I don't implicitly trust anyone, but I do trust what I can read investigate and discover on my own.

UD

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
I would think since it mail order only it wouldn't matter where you live you could participate in the sale. But then again Canada blocks some websites and some companies don't want to deal with shipping to canada and customs so maybe not.

If they're USA made, I wouldn't get hit with duty. I would get nailed with exchange and taxes, of course. Customs will get their hands on it and maybe try to charge duty, but I'd get out of that. Taxes would be unavoidable.

With respect to efficiency in general, note that those who do claim efficiency numbers are doing so in a way to appeal to the LCD amongst consumers, of course. They will claim whatever particle size happens to be in the high nineties, of course. They're not going to advertise 80% at five microns on the box, because the average consumer will see 99% at 20 microns somewhere else, and simply grab that instead. There's a reason the micron rating is usually the fine print.

 

[chetrickerman]

I recently switched from an AMSoil oil filter to the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter. I am using the exact same oil, but my oil pressure is now 7-10 psi higher with the Fram oil filter. Does it mean that the fram is filtering the oil better or that the oil bypass pressure in the fram filter is higher?

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: chetrickerman
I recently switched from an AMSoil oil filter to the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter. I am using the exact same oil, but my oil pressure is now 7-10 psi higher with the Fram oil filter. Does it mean that the fram is filtering the oil better or that the oil bypass pressure in the fram filter is higher?

What specific filter are you using? Each part number has its own bypass setting. And of course, some filters don't have a bypass valve at all.

 

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: chetrickerman
I recently switched from an AMSoil oil filter to the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter. I am using the exact same oil, but my oil pressure is now 7-10 psi higher with the Fram oil filter. Does it mean that the fram is filtering the oil better or that the oil bypass pressure in the fram filter is higher?

What specific filter are you using? Each part number has its own bypass setting. And of course, some filters don't have a bypass valve at all.


Thank you!

FRAM XG9688

 

[kschachn]

Is the observed engine oil pressure controlled by the filter's bypass limit?

 

[rrounds]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Is the observed engine oil pressure controlled by the filter's bypass limit?

No. The filters bypass is the pressure difference between the inlet and outlet of the oil filter. So if the filter has a 10lb. bypass when the pressure differential gets to 10 lbs. and let oil go around the oil filter and still lube your engine.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: rrounds
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Is the observed engine oil pressure controlled by the filter's bypass limit?

No. The filters bypass is the pressure difference between the inlet and outlet of the oil filter. So if the filter has a 10lb. bypass when the pressure differential gets to 10 lbs. and let oil go around the oil filter and still lube your engine.


Right, so chetrickerman's observation of his oil pressure is not related to the filter then.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: chetrickerman
I recently switched from an AMSoil oil filter to the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter. I am using the exact same oil, but my oil pressure is now 7-10 psi higher with the Fram oil filter. Does it mean that the fram is filtering the oil better or that the oil bypass pressure in the fram filter is higher?


What vehicle was this on? And was the pressure difference seen at the same oil temperature ... at idle or at higher RPM?

Higher oil pressure typically means more oil volume is being moved through the engine's oiling system.

 

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: chetrickerman
I recently switched from an AMSoil oil filter to the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter. I am using the exact same oil, but my oil pressure is now 7-10 psi higher with the Fram oil filter. Does it mean that the fram is filtering the oil better or that the oil bypass pressure in the fram filter is higher?


What vehicle was this on? And was the pressure difference seen at the same oil temperature ... at idle or at higher RPM?

Higher oil pressure typically means more oil volume is being moved through the engine's oiling system.


A 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X with a built 2.4L stroker. running Driven 15w-50 oil

Same oil temp, at all different rpm.

 

[rrounds]

That is correct. The only way for the oil pressure to change 10 psi is when the oil pump goes into bypass if the other things (oil weight and temp) are the same. And that only happens most of the time close to redline. You can have a oil filter that has a 8 lb or 23 lb bypass and as long as the oil pump has a higher pressure bypass all the oil that it pumps will go to the engine, either through or around the filter.

ROD

 

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted By: rrounds
That is correct. The only way for the oil pressure to change 10 psi is when the oil pump goes into bypass if the other things (oil weight and temp) are the same. And that only happens most of the time close to redline. You can have a oil filter that has a 8 lb or 23 lb bypass and as long as the oil pump has a higher pressure bypass all the oil that it pumps will go to the engine, either through or around the filter.

ROD


But with the new Fram filter, the oil pressure is 10 psi higher, not lower.

 

[1JZ_E46]

The new Bosch Long Life filter looks to be the most engineered filter on the market right now. They are $20 a pop though. I use Wix XP in my race engine. Mann filers in my daily-driven BMW engines.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: chetrickerman
Originally Posted By: rrounds
That is correct. The only way for the oil pressure to change 10 psi is when the oil pump goes into bypass if the other things (oil weight and temp) are the same. And that only happens most of the time close to redline. You can have a oil filter that has a 8 lb or 23 lb bypass and as long as the oil pump has a higher pressure bypass all the oil that it pumps will go to the engine, either through or around the filter.

ROD


But with the new Fram filter, the oil pressure is 10 psi higher, not lower.


At idle? At high RPM? If it was at higher RPM then it's possible the Amsoil filter was restrictive and causing the oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner than it should of. That would show up a lower oil pressure on your dash gauge.

Running 15w-50 oil is also going to cause more delta-p across any oil filter (even at full operating temperature) and could cause your oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner than if running thinner oil.

More oil pressure means there is more flow going into the engine's oiling system - if the oil pressure gauge is after the oil filter.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The new Bosch Long Life filter looks to be the most engineered filter on the market right now. They are $20 a pop though. I use Wix XP in my race engine. Mann filers in my daily-driven BMW engines.


Bosch LL = Purolator Synthetic (they may have switched it to the new Boss)

 

[Piston_slap]

I'm ruined, ruined I tell you. Your criticism of MG has deflated their stock's value to be classified as "junk stock" or garage floor liner. What will the little woman say when I tell her I moved our retirement nest egg from T-Bonds to MG stock?