Purolator Louvers (lack of)

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It's funny that in the case of the Purolator tears, all the flow going through an oil filter magically travels through a single 1/4" tear.

Now with this new louver fiasco, no flow can negotiate its way through these tiny little louvers.

What's the factor of safety in the Purolator design on the number of louvers punched in the tube? 2? 2.5?

Put 5 quarts of oil under pressure on that louvered tube and see what rate of flow is achieved.

How do the louvers compare to the media permeability in flow rate? Which is more restrictive?

You guys sure know how to burn some witches.

A little knowledge is a scary thing.


SilverC6 - there is no good way to rationalize this as being good. This is what you are trying to do.

In this case since the witch has failed to make good witches brew, the witch would be burned by the other witches.

This is not a witch hunt. Funflyer is reporting facts.

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It's funny that in the case of the Purolator tears, all the flow going through an oil filter magically travels through a single 1/4" tear.

Now with this new louver fiasco, no flow can negotiate its way through these tiny little louvers.

What's the factor of safety in the Purolator design on the number of louvers punched in the tube? 2? 2.5?

Put 5 quarts of oil under pressure on that louvered tube and see what rate of flow is achieved.

How do the louvers compare to the media permeability in flow rate? Which is more restrictive?

You guys sure know how to burn some witches.

A little knowledge is a scary thing.



I'd agree with this for the most part. If those louvers are too restrictive, then how in the world does the oil flow through the media? Those holes are microscopic. Oil filters are designed to have a certain flow rate. I'd be willing to bet that the required flow rate is met even with the louvers the way they are.

That being said, the consistency in this manufacturing process is horrible. The machines used to make these parts should be producing the exact same result every single time.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Whoever is in charge of manufacturing at Purolator needs to get his head out of the sand and wake up. This is just plain lack of attention to quality. And people will take notice.

funflyer - you should email Purolator with these photos and let them know they need to pay attention to their manufacturing processes and stop making junk.


I will email them and boy do I have some questions for them. See below.



Originally Posted By: Tony10s
Very good pictures funflyer ... thanks for posting all of them. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I saw one of the new blue Purolator One filters that looked like this with almost all of the "louvers" closed off. The Purolator Red filters I looked at had louvers that were barely open ... like paper-thin slits. This is just getting a little ridiculous. At first I thought I might try out the new Purolator lineup, but there is absolutely no chance of that now.

Thank you again funflyer for your pictures.


Your welcome Tony. It's evident that Purolator's latest design is using the same process as the old.

I did some searching on the web and found Purolator claims to be ISO 9001 certified. ISO 9001 is a quality management system (QMS) that if properly followed would never let ANY defective product leave their manufacturing facility. Here are their claims to quality, including a certificate of conformance (CoC) from ABS, whomever they are. Now a CoC means only that they had all the necessary paperwork in order along with in-house inspection reports on file and a quality manual showing they have proper guidance to follow. This guidance is usually their own written procedures which can be as little as one page or hundreds of pages. All this means nothing if they don't actually operate IAW IS0 9001-2008 which is clearly apparent they do not.
http://www.purolator-efp.com/About-Us/Quality
http://www.purolator-efp.com/Portals/21/documents/iso-shelby.pdf

Now, if you notice on the CoC, this evaluation by ABS (I say [censored]) was done in September of last year and expires in July 2018. Again, if Purolator was in compliance and following their QMS procedures in September there would be no chance that filters produced in December should be defective in any way unless, and I'm being facetious here, their blueprints call 30% total center tube perforations acceptable.

 

[DoubleWasp]

When crazyoildude was slamming Purolator for louvers, I continually defended them, since other filter manufacturers use louvers.

I have nothing to say about this. Picture I'd worth 1000 words.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
A little knowledge is a scary thing.


More like a bunch of "Purofanism" is a scary thing. I bet if it said Fram on the side you'd have all kinds of negative things to say.

And actually, having the knowledge to understand that messed up louvers in a center tube isn't a very good thing, which leads one to buy something made right, is a rather valuable thing to realize.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It's funny that in the case of the Purolator tears, all the flow going through an oil filter magically travels through a single 1/4" tear.

Now with this new louver fiasco, no flow can negotiate its way through these tiny little louvers.

What's the factor of safety in the Purolator design on the number of louvers punched in the tube? 2? 2.5?

Put 5 quarts of oil under pressure on that louvered tube and see what rate of flow is achieved.

How do the louvers compare to the media permeability in flow rate? Which is more restrictive?

You guys sure know how to burn some witches.

A little knowledge is a scary thing.


I'd agree with this for the most part. If those louvers are too restrictive, then how in the world does the oil flow through the media? Those holes are microscopic. Oil filters are designed to have a certain flow rate. I'd be willing to bet that the required flow rate is met even with the louvers the way they are.


There will still be some oil flowing through the media and center tube. But with half or more of the louvers not even there, the delta-p could be quite high which would put the filter in bypass a lot of the time. Sure, the engine might still get adequate oil flow with a lot of it going through the bypass valve, but does anyone really want their oil filter working like that. Not me ... you couldn't pay me to use a filter made like that, regardless of the brand name. If Fram Ultras for instance started showing up on the shelves like that, I'd drop in like a hot potato!

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
That being said, the consistency in this manufacturing process is horrible. The machines used to make these parts should be producing the exact same result every single time.


+1 ... there is something seriously wrong with their louver making process.

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It's funny that in the case of the Purolator tears, all the flow going through an oil filter magically travels through a single 1/4" tear.

Now with this new louver fiasco, no flow can negotiate its way through these tiny little louvers.

What's the factor of safety in the Purolator design on the number of louvers punched in the tube? 2? 2.5?

Put 5 quarts of oil under pressure on that louvered tube and see what rate of flow is achieved.

How do the louvers compare to the media permeability in flow rate? Which is more restrictive?

You guys sure know how to burn some witches.

A little knowledge is a scary thing.


SilverC6 - there is no good way to rationalize this as being good. This is what you are trying to do.

In this case since the witch has failed to make good witches brew, the witch would be burned by the other witches.

This is not a witch hunt. Funflyer is reporting facts.


Exactly right, WellOiled

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
There will still be some oil flowing through the media and center tube. But with half or more of the louvers not even there, the delta-p could be quite high which would put the filter in bypass a lot of the time. Sure, the engine might still get adequate oil flow with a lot of it going through the bypass valve, but does anyone really want their oil filter working like that. Not me ... you couldn't pay me to use a filter made like that, regardless of the brand name. If Fram Ultras for instance started showing up on the shelves like that, I'd drop in like a hot potato!


+1 ... The filter is either made right or it isn't. The brand name has nothing to do with it. I would not use any filter with closed-off louvers like that shown above by funflyer, regardless of the brand.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Whoever is in charge of manufacturing at Purolator needs to get his head out of the sand and wake up. This is just plain lack of attention to quality. And people will take notice.

funflyer - you should email Purolator with these photos and let them know they need to pay attention to their manufacturing processes and stop making junk.


I will email them and boy do I have some questions for them. See below.



Originally Posted By: Tony10s
Very good pictures funflyer ... thanks for posting all of them. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I saw one of the new blue Purolator One filters that looked like this with almost all of the "louvers" closed off. The Purolator Red filters I looked at had louvers that were barely open ... like paper-thin slits. This is just getting a little ridiculous. At first I thought I might try out the new Purolator lineup, but there is absolutely no chance of that now.

Thank you again funflyer for your pictures.


Your welcome Tony. It's evident that Purolator's latest design is using the same process as the old.

I did some searching on the web and found Purolator claims to be ISO 9001 certified. ISO 9001 is a quality management system (QMS) that if properly followed would never let ANY defective product leave their manufacturing facility. Here are their claims to quality, including a certificate of conformance (CoC) from ABS, whomever they are. Now a CoC means only that they had all the necessary paperwork in order along with in-house inspection reports on file and a quality manual showing they have proper guidance to follow. This guidance is usually their own written procedures which can be as little as one page or hundreds of pages. All this means nothing if they don't actually operate IAW IS0 9001-2008 which is clearly apparent they do not.
http://www.purolator-efp.com/About-Us/Quality
http://www.purolator-efp.com/Portals/21/documents/iso-shelby.pdf

Now, if you notice on the CoC, this evaluation by ABS (I say [censored]) was done in September of last year and expires in July 2018. Again, if Purolator was in compliance and following their QMS procedures in September there would be no chance that filters produced in December should be defective in any way unless, and I'm being facetious here, their blueprints call 30% total center tube perforations acceptable.

Funflyer - excellent point. Many companies bend over backwards to pass ISO audits. If there is a gateway to convey this to the auditor, you would have a huge stick.

If you don't get support from customer service, you could send the VP of US operations a well crafted letter with photos and remind him/her about their ISO compliance issues. If after giving Puro every opportunity to make things right and they do not, there is the 6 O'Clock news.

 

[crazyoildude]

Bigger Holes equals better flow its sort of the way it works..
Thats how a water valve works turn it on very little and the opening is open very little and very little water comes out.. Everyone has their own beliefs but the fact is larger opening better flow.Period!!

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Bigger Holes equals better flow its sort of the way it works..
Thats how a water valve works turn it on very little and the opening is open very little and very little water comes out.. Everyone has their own beliefs but the fact is larger opening better flow.Period!!


That's one hole, think of a shower head with fifty tiny holes and able to flow the full GPM. But there is a problem here and seems to me a conclusion has to be reached by individuals according to their own thinking. My conclusion on oil filters is, Fram Ultra unless they change it to worse, and Toyota OE. Wix is just harder to get for me unless online, and I don't like the funny rubber combo valve they use in my model. All others, forget it, why take a chance.

 

[SilverC6]

The issue here is not whether the construction of the Purolator is poor or not. Clearly, it's not their best work.

The real problem I see is a full-on scorched earth handling of Purolator and their products here on BITOG.

The company just introduced a revamped oil filter line, top to bottom, based on the problems that developed during their acquisition by Mann-Hummel.

And it's the relentless, go-for-the-throat while their down approach here on BITOG by a few that smacks of an industry driven agenda to seriously wound Purolator and capture its market share.

So stop showing me old style Purolators with tears and other minor manufacturing anomalies just like you find in other filter brands. We know they exist and still haven't done a bit of harm.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The issue here is not whether the construction of the Purolator is poor or not.



Sure.

 

[sprite1741]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6

So stop showing me old style Purolators with tears and other minor manufacturing anomalies just like you find in other filter brands. We know they exist and still haven't done a bit of harm.



Minor manufacturing defects that show up in other brands? I think Purolator has about cornered the market on defective products.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
And it's the relentless, go-for-the-throat while their down approach here on BITOG by a few that smacks of an industry driven agenda to seriously wound Purolator and capture its market share.
The same could be said for those who share the opposite viewpoint. Who cares if they are "down" as you put it--any company that produces and sells defective products and never makes good on them (e.g. completely ignores the problem or blames the consumer) should lose 100% of its market share.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6

So stop showing me old style Purolators with tears and other minor manufacturing anomalies just like you find in other filter brands. We know they exist and still haven't done a bit of harm.


That's why we add a title to our threads, so you can decide if you want to read or not.

"minor manufacturing anomalies"

As long as the old style filters are being produced and sold, customers have the right to inspect and report their findings. It's our duty. These filters were made in November 2015 according to ZeeOSix so when did Purolator decide to revamp their entire line of filters? December? I don't think so. If and when their newest line of filters start to fail in the quality department, you'll thank us.

 

[goodtimes]

Champ labs is down, Puro seems to be fine so far. Every day thousands of their filters are installed in shops and at Ford dealers. They are guilty of fixing what wasn't broken from my viewpoint. They had a nice center tube like this (not a good picture):

What was wrong with it? Nothing. As far as ADBV tearing it is only on models that have the neck on the end cap. The other kind they make is fine and a very nice valve. I think it is about the best adbv on the market. The pliability of the valve is great and the seal tight. Better than Fram IMO. This kind:

But now the louver mistakes and outer layer baseplate intrusion, cutting into some models of their adbv's make the whole line something I wouldn't use or buy. I was all set to try the Boss Hog, but now, no.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The real problem I see is a full-on scorched earth handling of Purolator and their products here on BITOG.

The company just introduced a revamped oil filter line, top to bottom, based on the problems that developed during their acquisition by Mann-Hummel.

And it's the relentless, go-for-the-throat while their down approach here on BITOG by a few that smacks of an industry driven agenda to seriously wound Purolator and capture its market share.


The way Purolator has been making oil filters over the last 2 years pretty much self induced the negative criticism to their products. It's their own fault ... only they have the ability to control their product lines.

If they could learn how to properly design and manufacture an oil filter, like so many other oil filter companies in the world, then maybe they might get some respect back form the consumer. Since their total revamp of their oil filter line, I haven't seem many of them used here. It just goes to show how incredibly strong loss of confidence impacts what people will buy. It may take years before Purolator regains confidence in the people who knew of their product problems. Kind of say really, but it's reality and something Purolator now needs to work even harder to rectify. But putting out new filters with malformed louvers and ADBVs that get cut by the base plate holes isn't really helping them out. Again, they need to pull their head out and address issues.

I have to believe that Purolator/Mann+Hummel must see this kind of feedback, and if they choose to ignore it then they deserve to loose business based on their bad business practices. Simple economics.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
So stop showing me old style Purolators with tears and other minor manufacturing anomalies just like you find in other filter brands. We know they exist and still haven't done a bit of harm.


It's obvious the Purolator made filter here have the mass majority of 'manufacturing anomalies' (aka, low quality junk).

 

[SirTanon]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
Stop buying Purolators. They can't be trusted anymore.


Yeah, they only invented the automotive oil filter in 1923.


Well that was almost 100 years ago, and a lot has changed since then. Just because they did it first, 93 years ago, doesn't mean they're doing it to any degree of competence now.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The issue here is not whether the construction of the Purolator is poor or not. Clearly, it's not their best work.

Poor quality construction is the issue. This issue has been around for 2-3 years now. People are fed up with it.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The real problem I see is a full-on scorched earth handling of Purolator and their products here on BITOG.

People are reporting the facts. No scorched earth under their feet.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The company just introduced a revamped oil filter line, top to bottom, based on the problems that developed during their acquisition by Mann-Hummel.

And people's expectation is these problems would be solved and they are not.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
And it's the relentless, go-for-the-throat while their down approach here on BITOG by a few that smacks of an industry driven agenda to seriously wound Purolator and capture its market share.

Purolator has been selling poor quality product. People are reporting the facts.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
So stop showing me old style Purolators with tears and other minor manufacturing anomalies just like you find in other filter brands. We know they exist and still haven't done a bit of harm.

When Purolator replaces the defective products they sold me, I will run it and post the results. Meanwhile, I am under no obligation to purchase or recommend their products.