The M-14 rifle, and use and deployment of in USMC

[Prune_Juice]

I have been talking with my father recently and discussing various things. One of which came up was, of course, Vietnam war. He seemed pleased that I was aware that not every single soldier or infantryman or whatever had the M-16 issued to them.

I am beginning to believe that he must have been one of the first ones over there. He was in fact USMC. Says it was "1-1-1" deployment, he told me what that means and I forgot. Told me also that the M14 was 7.62mm and based off an M1 (I asked "Garand?" He said "M-1, World War 2.") I did not know it was 7.62??..

Here is a pic he gave to me of him there.

So, does anyone have anything to add about the M-14, and its timeframe or issuance in the Vietnam War?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Indeed, it was based on the Garand. The Garand is 30.06 (7.62 X 63). The M-14 is .308 (7.62 X 51).

I'd like to know what pistol is in the holster.

 

[SpecM]

The M14 was basically an improved M1 Garand, but it was select-fire (full auto capable), fired from a detachable box magazine rather then an internal clip, and chambered .308 rather than 30-06 (both are 7.62mm)

In Vietnam, the M16 wasn't issued in the Army until 1966-68 (it was phased in). The Marine Corp held onto the M14 for a few more years.

The M14 is a very fine rifle

 

[BrocLuno]

The M-14 is still in deployment with some troops in the desert theaters now ...

 

[user52165]

I still remember the serial number of my M14 (Winchester) issued in basic training Jan 1968. Yes, a very fine rifle. Got a brand M16 (Colt) in VietNam. The M14AI is auto capable. The M14 is easily modded to auto which is one reason you can't buy one.

Interesting link:

http://www.smithenterprise.com/index.html

 

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted By: user52165
I still remember the serial number of my M14 (Winchester) issued in basic training Jan 1968. Yes, a very fine rifle. Got a brand M16 (Colt) in VietNam. The M14AI is auto capable. The M14 is easily modded to auto which is one reason you can't buy one.

Interesting link:

http://www.smithenterprise.com/index.html


The Springfield M1A is pretty much an exact copy of the M14 so yes you can buy one. Springfield has made a bunch of variations of the original. Great rifles.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/standard-m1a/

GREAT photo of your dad Prune Juice, priceless.

 

[billt460]

They also make the M1-A in the SOCOM 16 Model. It was designed right, with a gas system to match it's shorter barrel. They're not cheap, but they are fantastic rifles. This gun, with a forward mounted optic of your choice, has the bolt action "Scout Rifle" concept beat 11 ways to Sunday. You have the compact size, with 25 rounds of semi automatic firepower. No bolt action can touch it in terms of accurate 7.62 X 51 MM firepower delivered downrange.

 

[AZjeff]

You're saying the SOCOM is more accurate than say a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308? A friend has an RPR that is MOA on average days and approaches 1/2 MOA on good days.

 

[Robenstein]

Yeah the M14 story is an odd one. Back in my grad student days I gave a paper at a history conference on massive bungle that was M14 procurement that resulted, in part, with the adoption of the Colt M16.

If you can ever get your hands on a copy, R. Blake Stevens wrote an awesome book on the history of the M14. Ed Ezell also wrote a hard to find book called The Great Rifle Controversy which goes over the whole matter in a broader scope.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: AZjeff
You're saying the SOCOM is more accurate than say a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308?


No, that's not what I said. I never mentioned the RPR. Different pig, different farm. I said it beats any bolt action Scout Rifle including the Ruger Scout Rifle in terms of delivering accurate firepower downrange.

 

[bubbatime]

Yeah I think what he meant to say was that since it is an accurate semi auto, it can deliver quite a punch down range, better than a 4 shot bolt action can, and I would tend to agree with that assertion.

If he meant to say that they are more accurate than a bolt gun sniper rifle that the Army/Marines use, I would disagree with that assertion.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: GeorgeKaplan
I'd like to know what pistol is in the holster.


Beat to snot WW2 surplus 1911 most likely.

 

[CT8]

Dad is a lean and mean fighting machine !!!!

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: billt460
They also make the M1-A in the SOCOM 16 Model. It was designed right, with a gas system to match it's shorter barrel. They're not cheap, but they are fantastic rifles. This gun, with a forward mounted optic of your choice, has the bolt action "Scout Rifle" concept beat 11 ways to Sunday. You have the compact size, with 25 rounds of semi automatic firepower. No bolt action can touch it in terms of accurate 7.62 X 51 MM firepower delivered downrange.






I love my SOCOM II. It is a little heavy, but a dream to shoot. I still need to get some optics for it and I wanted to switch out to a BattleComp compensator.



I am friends with the owner of the store I bought it from and he has mentioned people coming in wanted them and willing to pay top dollar for them.

 

[Prune_Juice]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: GeorgeKaplan
I'd like to know what pistol is in the holster.


Beat to snot WW2 surplus 1911 most likely.


I'm going to ask the next chance I get. I've always wondered what USMC carried as their sidearm.

So that's one guess for the .45.. Would that be Colt? Would it be a special edition like an A1 for the Marines? Yes? No? 'Nam...

I think I'll also ask just when he got over there. I know almost nothing about that war. And I'm always surprised by how early it started.

Dad did say.. "Its like a .30-06, just a little shorter." I think he did mention .308, as was said. 7.62mm I always thought was an AK-47 round. There are different AKs.

Originally Posted By: CT8
Dad is a lean and mean fighting machine !!!!


Thanks! And was awarded a Purple Heart sometime during the course of his service. Radio operator.. Must have really loved the Marines.

Check out the Kabar.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
I'm going to ask the next chance I get. I've always wondered what USMC carried as their sidearm.

So that's one guess for the .45.. Would that be Colt? Would it be a special edition like an A1 for the Marines? Yes? No? 'Nam...


The services carried the 1911 until the Beretta transition in the 80's. They were made by Colt, Remington-Rand, Ithaca, Union Switch and Signal, and Singer. All of the modern services now use the Beretta. Exception to that being some special force units which sometimes carry something else. Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance, or Force Recon, bought themselves a bunch of railed 1911 Colt pistols and carry those. They wanted the .45ACP round I guess. They are under the special operations umbrella so they can choose a different pistol than the regular Beretta I guess.


Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Dad did say.. "Its like a .30-06, just a little shorter." I think he did mention .308, as was said. 7.62mm I always thought was an AK-47 round. There are different AKs.


7.62 is the caliber, which roughly equates to a .30 caliber round. 7.62x51 is the .308 rifle round used in the M14. 7.62x39 is the Russian AK47 rounds.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
7.62 is the caliber, which roughly equates to a .30 caliber round. 7.62x51 is the .308 rifle round used in the M14. 7.62x39 is the Russian AK47 rounds.


There is also 7.62x54mm that is used in the Dragunov sniper rifle and other long range Eastern Bloc applications.

 

[Robenstein]

As mentioned 7.62 is the bullet diameter. It is the metric measurement for 30 caliber. There has been a ton of 30 caliber cartridges both in rifles and pistols.

The M1 Garand was actually chambered in both 30-06/.30M2 (7.62x63mm) and later in 7.62x51mm (7.62 Nato) The change was due to the push for Nato standardization following the Second World War and used in Korea. The technology of propellants allowed you to get similar performance with a shorter round with less case capacity. This saved material and weight, good for both the government treasury and the soldier that has to lug around the ammo. The Garands in 7.62 Nato tend to be a bit more finicky though.

 

[CT8]

There is something about the M1 or the M14 that is missing in the M16. It is not a bad or good just a certain I don't know exactly. The look? The feel? Wood and steel? like a harley there is just something about them.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: CT8
There is something about the M1 or the M14 that is missing in the M16. It is not a bad or good just a certain I don't know exactly. The look? The feel? Wood and steel? like a harley there is just something about them.



I am going to go with the feel. Not only is the M16 light and "toylike" in comparison, that 5.56x45mm cartridge just doesn't recoil much and you have that weird recoil feel to the gun with the buffer spring in the stock. The M16 just feels more fragile.