Justice for black kid ?

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Quote:
A Detroit man who was incarcerated after being wrongly convicted of four murders is walking free today, after serving nearly nine years of a sentence he received at the age of 15.

Sanford was serving a 37-to-90-year sentence for a quadruple homicide he was convicted of in 2008, his attorneys said. Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.


Quote:
A turning point arrived when investigators realized that it was former Detective James Tolbert of the Detroit Police Department who drew a diagram of the crime scene, not Sanford, as the original investigators alleged.

"Tolbert had in earlier testimony said that Davontae had drawn the diagram of the house where the murder took place, but during the police investigation, he changed his story and said, 'No, I drew the house.'" Naasko said. "It was a direct contradiction to his testimony on the record."

The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office confirmed that account, noting, "former Deputy Chief James Tolbert contradicts his sworn testimony that Davontae Sanford drew the entire diagram of the crime scene, including the location of the victims' bodies, while being questioned by the police. This called into question Tolbert’s credibility in the case."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/detroit-man-freed-serving-years-murders-commit/story?id=39696113

This was an outright lie by former detective James Tolbert, he later became Deputy Chief of Flint. Also, public defender didn't care for his client(probably he/she got very low pay for this case).

A 14 years old kid went to jail for 9 years for a crime he didn't commit, mainly because of a cop committed per jury.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Quote:
A Detroit man who was incarcerated after being wrongly convicted of four murders is walking free today, after serving nearly nine years of a sentence he received at the age of 15.

Sanford was serving a 37-to-90-year sentence for a quadruple homicide he was convicted of in 2008, his attorneys said. Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.


Quote:
A turning point arrived when investigators realized that it was former Detective James Tolbert of the Detroit Police Department who drew a diagram of the crime scene, not Sanford, as the original investigators alleged.

"Tolbert had in earlier testimony said that Davontae had drawn the diagram of the house where the murder took place, but during the police investigation, he changed his story and said, 'No, I drew the house.'" Naasko said. "It was a direct contradiction to his testimony on the record."

The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office confirmed that account, noting, "former Deputy Chief James Tolbert contradicts his sworn testimony that Davontae Sanford drew the entire diagram of the crime scene, including the location of the victims' bodies, while being questioned by the police. This called into question Tolbert’s credibility in the case."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/detroit-man-freed-serving-years-murders-commit/story?id=39696113

This was an outright lie by former detective James Tolbert, he later became Deputy Chief of Flint. Also, public defender didn't care for his client(probably he/she got very low pay for this case).

A 14 years old kid went to jail for 9 years for a crime he didn't commit, mainly because of a cop committed per jury.


^ This

This is why I happy I live in
34.gif


One of the Founding Fathers said "It is better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent person to be found guilty." We forget this.

So.. whenever the pro-police types talk about strict policing, or proud of convictions, especially those that are not clear.. I roll my eyes.

The justice system works.

01.gif
 
At the risk of coming off like a [censored], why is this person's race relevant to the story? (hint: it isn't)

I agree that it is a tragedy and should never have happened.
 
Quote: Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.

--> I'm not seeing the issue. What did the kid think would happen by pleading guilty? If he wasn't guilty why did he say he was guilty? Why did he confess to the murders?

I don't feel sorry for him. At least on the face of the story who cares. Shouldn't have confessed in the first place.
 
If we were talking about an adult, I'd buy it.

The kid was 14.

I have a child only a few years older than 14 now. She would have been scared out of her wits if she was being accused of a homicide.

The real question is what are the safeguards for a minor should they confess to a crime?

It's one thing if you are 44 and confess, but 14? Even my normally tough on crime instinct isn't buying the legitimacy of the confession of a minor. At the very least, it should be checked out.


Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Quote: Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.

--> I'm not seeing the issue. What did the kid think would happen by pleading guilty? If he wasn't guilty why did he say he was guilty? Why did he confess to the murders?

I don't feel sorry for him. At least on the face of the story who cares. Shouldn't have confessed in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Quote: Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.

--> I'm not seeing the issue. What did the kid think would happen by pleading guilty? If he wasn't guilty why did he say he was guilty? Why did he confess to the murders?

I don't feel sorry for him. At least on the face of the story who cares. Shouldn't have confessed in the first place.
crazy.gif
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Quote: Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.

--> I'm not seeing the issue. What did the kid think would happen by pleading guilty? If he wasn't guilty why did he say he was guilty? Why did he confess to the murders?

I don't feel sorry for him. At least on the face of the story who cares. Shouldn't have confessed in the first place.
crazy.gif

50.gif
It's pretty simple. The guy needs to be compensated, and those responsible for screwing up need to be held accountable.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
At the risk of coming off like a [censored], why is this person's race relevant to the story? (hint: it isn't)

I agree that it is a tragedy and should never have happened.

Most innocent people had been in jail for some times and found not guilty the last several were mostly black male.

Looks to me like "You're black therefore you're guilty of some crimes"
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Quote: Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.

--> I'm not seeing the issue. What did the kid think would happen by pleading guilty? If he wasn't guilty why did he say he was guilty? Why did he confess to the murders?

I don't feel sorry for him. At least on the face of the story who cares. Shouldn't have confessed in the first place.

You sound cold and heartless.
 
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
It's pretty simple. The guy needs to be compensated, and those responsible for screwing up need to be held accountable.

If only it was that simple.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
At the risk of coming off like a [censored], why is this person's race relevant to the story? (hint: it isn't)

I agree that it is a tragedy and should never have happened.


Exactly. Well said.
 
Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Quote:
A Detroit man who was incarcerated after being wrongly convicted of four murders is walking free today, after serving nearly nine years of a sentence he received at the age of 15.

Sanford was serving a 37-to-90-year sentence for a quadruple homicide he was convicted of in 2008, his attorneys said. Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.


Quote:
A turning point arrived when investigators realized that it was former Detective James Tolbert of the Detroit Police Department who drew a diagram of the crime scene, not Sanford, as the original investigators alleged.

"Tolbert had in earlier testimony said that Davontae had drawn the diagram of the house where the murder took place, but during the police investigation, he changed his story and said, 'No, I drew the house.'" Naasko said. "It was a direct contradiction to his testimony on the record."

The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office confirmed that account, noting, "former Deputy Chief James Tolbert contradicts his sworn testimony that Davontae Sanford drew the entire diagram of the crime scene, including the location of the victims' bodies, while being questioned by the police. This called into question Tolbert’s credibility in the case."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/detroit-man-freed-serving-years-murders-commit/story?id=39696113

This was an outright lie by former detective James Tolbert, he later became Deputy Chief of Flint. Also, public defender didn't care for his client(probably he/she got very low pay for this case).

A 14 years old kid went to jail for 9 years for a crime he didn't commit, mainly because of a cop committed per jury.


^ This

This is why I happy I live in
34.gif


One of the Founding Fathers said "It is better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent person to be found guilty." We forget this.

So.. whenever the pro-police types talk about strict policing, or proud of convictions, especially those that are not clear.. I roll my eyes.

The justice system works.

01.gif



But how is the dog doing????
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
If we were talking about an adult, I'd buy it.

The kid was 14.

I have a child only a few years older than 14 now. She would have been scared out of her wits if she was being accused of a homicide.

The real question is what are the safeguards for a minor should they confess to a crime?

It's one thing if you are 44 and confess, but 14? Even my normally tough on crime instinct isn't buying the legitimacy of the confession of a minor. At the very least, it should be checked out.


Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Quote: Sanford was 14 years old when he pleaded guilty to four counts of second-degree homicide at the advice of a now-suspended attorney.

--> I'm not seeing the issue. What did the kid think would happen by pleading guilty? If he wasn't guilty why did he say he was guilty? Why did he confess to the murders?

I don't feel sorry for him. At least on the face of the story who cares. Shouldn't have confessed in the first place.




A 14 year old kid stood no chance at all.

Yup- cops are brutal in interrogations and the DA almost always cares more about clearing the case than finding the right guy.

They lie like rugs- "just say yes and you can go home" type stuff.


UD
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
If we were talking about an adult, I'd buy it.

The kid was 14.

I have a child only a few years older than 14 now. She would have been scared out of her wits if she was being accused of a homicide.


The AVERAGE 14 year old, sure. Don't lump all 14 year olds into the same category. The most dangerous people in almost any large community in America are 13-16 year old ghetto males. They grew up in bad/abusive homes, were raised on the streets, and have terrible impulse control. They do what they want, when they want, with no consequences. The juvenile justice system at most lets them out in 21 days, unless they kill someone. Yes that's right, they can rob someone, beat up someone, terrorize their neighborhood and the most the juvenile justice system can give them is 21 days in juvenile hall. They get out and go back to their ways again and again, until they turn 18 and are FINALLY sent off to big boy prison where they belong.

For one year I supervised 12-17 year old males in a prison environment, so I am intimately familiar with them. I would never do that again. Not for 100K dollars, not for a million dollars. The kids are just flat out DANGEROUS.
 
Wait a minute. Nowhere in the articles quoted above does it say that this man was innocent. It only said that the credibility of the detective was in question. While I totally understand that with the dirty tricks that many law enforcement officers do during interrogation, it is not unusual to get false confessions, the young man did confess. There is no evidence stated in the article that proves innocence. All we have is thrown out evidence.

I'm also confused as to what race has to do with this account. Regardless of race, justice should always be dealt out. I've got a real problem with law enforcement officers that get so convinced that they "have their man", that they justify.

The penalty for cops using such interrogation tactics should be severe. Unfortunately, punishment is almost unheard of for such tactics.
 
He was given the shaft I hope he gets some serious money to compensate him for the theft of his live and the government people and the attorney get their just due.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: dparm
At the risk of coming off like a [censored], why is this person's race relevant to the story? (hint: it isn't)

I agree that it is a tragedy and should never have happened.

Most innocent people had been in jail for some times and found not guilty the last several were mostly black male.

Looks to me like "You're black therefore you're guilty of some crimes"



Yes, I know there are a lot of statistics about incarceration rates among different ethnic groups, but no one has said this kid was singled-out or intentionally jailed because of his race. It's entirely possible, but it will be hard to prove short of the officer flat-out admitting it.

If you want to talk about systemic racism in law enforcement, the courts, or society as a whole, that's a completely different discussion. Absent of any irrefutable proof of racism on the cop's part, this isn't a race issue.

Also, FWIW, the 2010 census data shows Flint, MI as 56.6% African American.

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't like speculation and empty accusations about race being an issue where it isn't. Nothing good comes of it.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
He was given the shaft I hope he gets some serious money to compensate him for the theft of his live and the government people and the attorney get their just due.


Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Just because the cop was crooked doesn't exactly mean the kid was innocent.


Yea..compensate him..he'll O.D. on heroine and all will be well.
 
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