Blown head gasket on B&S

[tig1]

Just replaced the head gasket on my 21HP Platinum Briggs engine. It's on a four year old Craftsman 3000 rider with about 125 hrs on the engine. About a month ago the engine started using oil for the first time, and this week it really started smoking, so after my research I found out it was the HG. After pulling the head, I found the break near an oil passage.

Question: Are blown HGs a common thing on these engines?

 

[bchannell]

Not common, nor unheard of either. Sorry for your problem, I would contact B&S and ask, politely, for some relief. I'm not saying they will pony up, as I've seen it go both ways, but on a well maintained motor, you should be able to expect a much longer motor life without this sort of failure. I've seen a couple of casting flaws over the years, and a defective head gasket, add to that, I'm sure not every single new installation from the factory is perfect. So, it doesn't hurt to ask. Over the years, I've found, if you're honest and you ask in a polite way, you will prevail more often than any other approach. BRiggs replaced a motor on my Troy-Bilt chipper, many years ago, so many, I don't remember what the failure was. I volunteered to install the replacement, and take full responsibility for it, saving any discussion about labor cost, and they shipped me an 8hp I/C motor, so it's worth a shot to ask.since you've already done the replacement, they might refund at least some of the $$.

 

[jeepman3071]

Very common. I see a lot of them with blown head gaskets. There is a weak spot between the valve lifter area and the piston. I see it mostly on the single cylinder OHV vertical shaft engines.

Besides that, these engines are pretty good. I prefer them over the Kohler Courage junk.

 

[CT8]

M1 caused it !

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: bchannell
Not common, nor unheard of either. Sorry for your problem, I would contact B&S and ask, politely, for some relief. I'm not saying they will pony up, as I've seen it go both ways, but on a well maintained motor, you should be able to expect a much longer motor life without this sort of failure. I've seen a couple of casting flaws over the years, and a defective head gasket, add to that, I'm sure not every single new installation from the factory is perfect. So, it doesn't hurt to ask. Over the years, I've found, if you're honest and you ask in a polite way, you will prevail more often than any other approach. BRiggs replaced a motor on my Troy-Bilt chipper, many years ago, so many, I don't remember what the failure was. I volunteered to install the replacement, and take full responsibility for it, saving any discussion about labor cost, and they shipped me an 8hp I/C motor, so it's worth a shot to ask.since you've already done the replacement, they might refund at least some of the $$.


I did contact Briggs and they said since I didn't pay for the extended warranty hey wouldn't pay for my repair.

 

[bchannell]

I guess things are tough all over. BRiggs isn't working to uphold their reputation. Those engines should be pretty durable, even if their customer service isnt.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: bchannell
Not common, nor unheard of either. Sorry for your problem, I would contact B&S and ask, politely, for some relief. I'm not saying they will pony up, as I've seen it go both ways, but on a well maintained motor, you should be able to expect a much longer motor life without this sort of failure. I've seen a couple of casting flaws over the years, and a defective head gasket, add to that, I'm sure not every single new installation from the factory is perfect. So, it doesn't hurt to ask. Over the years, I've found, if you're honest and you ask in a polite way, you will prevail more often than any other approach. BRiggs replaced a motor on my Troy-Bilt chipper, many years ago, so many, I don't remember what the failure was. I volunteered to install the replacement, and take full responsibility for it, saving any discussion about labor cost, and they shipped me an 8hp I/C motor, so it's worth a shot to ask.since you've already done the replacement, they might refund at least some of the $$.


I did contact Briggs and they said since I didn't pay for the extended warranty hey wouldn't pay for my repair.


That makes sense... Did you expect them to give you something for an engine that had no warranty? When should their liability end? Never? Like you can just call and say hey i had a problem with this 15 year old engine. What are you going to do about it?

 

[yvon_la]

Sealing an engine is an art.(especially two stroke)try to find silicone gasket material.dont use cardboard. It's useless

 

[Lubener]

The new head gaskets are junk compared to the past ones. Just make sure the mating surfaces are flat and bolts torqued evenly.

 

[lars11]

And DON'T "unrough" the surface, that will cause the next gasket to slide and break easier. Only plastic spatulas on the hg mating surfaces

 

[ford46guy]

I'm ready for flames, but I talked to a very busy outdoor repair shop about 5 years ago. He said to use only B&S 30W oil in the black jug, nothing else. He said synthetics and multiweights cause oil loss and problems (it is actually mentioned in the owners guide). And the Briggs oil is supposed to have special additives for air cooled engines. It is not a question of being the best, but being very application specific for those motors, assuming the the OCI interval is met

They wouldn't warranty their work with any other oil product, and require receipts with a date and picture of the hour meter of the OC.
It is in the paperwork they return to customers. Feel free to use what you want, but you fix it yourself if it breaks in 2 or 3 years. He said it is very,very rare to see a comeback for an oil leak or lube issue and he services customers that have the equipment 10+ years after the repair with no issues. Not to say the oil will cure some manufacturing defects, but it gives you the best protection for things on the fence.

Their shop exclusively uses that oil for B&S engines, maintenance or repair.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: ford46guy
I'm ready for flames, but I talked to a very busy outdoor repair shop about 5 years ago. He said to use only B&S 30W oil in the black jug, nothing else. He said synthetics and multiweights cause oil loss and problems (it is actually mentioned in the owners guide). And the Briggs oil is supposed to have special additives for air cooled engines. It is not a question of being the best, but being very application specific for those motors, assuming the the OCI interval is met


Of course that shop is completely full of it since Briggs and Stratton recommend several oils/grades and 5W-30 synthetic is most recommended:

Quote:
Synthetic 5W-30 -20 to 120° F (-30 to 40° C) provides the best protection at all temperatures as well as improved starting with less oil consumption


http://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en/support/faqs/engine-oil-recommendations

 

[ATS-V]

This very common in these motors, as previously stated there's a weak spot on the oil galley side. Mine have failed every few years of use. The last time I did the repair I opted to copper spray the gasket like we used to do on cars 25+ years ago. So far this last repair has lasted 5+ years so far.

 

[ironman_gq]

Do these engines still use the laminated metallic gaskets? If they do I wouldn't hesitate to spray them with the copper gasket coat and bolt her back together. DO NOT use RTV on the headgasket though, thats just asking for a lot of issues.

 

[bchannell]

I have to call "[censored]" on the oil question. UOAS right on here prove that, while B&S and Kohler are good oils, they are really nothing special. They are HDEO oils with plenty of zinc. If for no other reason, the shear numbers of engines out there NOT using that oil and surviving just fine, prove it's [censored]. There is simply no way anyone could tell the difference between well maintained OPE, using any appropriate quality oil.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: bchannell
I have to call "[censored]" on the oil question. UOAS right on here prove that, while B&S and Kohler are good oils, they are really nothing special. They are HDEO oils with plenty of zinc. If for no other reason, the shear numbers of engines out there NOT using that oil and surviving just fine, prove it's [censored]. There is simply no way anyone could tell the difference between well maintained OPE, using any appropriate quality oil.


+1

That shop sounds like one in this area that charges customers extra for the special Kohler oil and claims it is the only oil to be used in the zero turns they service. Maybe they get incentives from Kohler? Who knows. I showed one of their previous customers that they sold the special Kohler oil at tractor supply and he wasn't happy that it was 1/4 the price the shop charged for it.

I know there are crooked people in every business but some small engine repair places are crazy. 3 month wait times, and one of my customers previously went to a dealer that charged her 800 bucks to re-install a mower belt that fell off the deck. They didn't even replace the belt! The pick up and delivery was $100 each time and it took them 2 weeks to do the job.

 

[andyd]

The B+S manual I read said 30 weight was preferred. That other viscosities would cause oil consumption. Big whooping deal. If you check the oil before Every use, then oil consumption should be a non issue.

 

[Michael_P]

If you put too hot of a spark plug in, you will damage Briggs OHV head gaskets in under 50 hours. That has been my 25+ years experience trash picking mowers. Most of the time the head gasket has been blown on a Briggs OHV, I found too hot of a plug in there. Quite a few of them I find have E3's in them. They must run hot.

 

[chad8]

E-3's = splitfire = Pulstar = Bosch = too hot. Sure they run clean, fast starts, and get better mileage for a while.
Same 80's technology - same results . BOOM...
Only plugs i run are Champs and NGK in small engines.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: bchannell
I guess things are tough all over. BRiggs isn't working to uphold their reputation. Those engines should be pretty durable, even if their customer service isnt.


They have warranties. Unless its lifetime, warranties have an end date. When should their responsibility end?