Hyundai Entourage/Kia Sedona minivans

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Hello all - We presently have a '97 Mazda MPV minivan (3.0 l SOHC 4-speed automatic RWD 7-passenger 308K km) and an '09 Mazda 5 microvan (2.3 l DOHC 5-speed manual FWD 6-passenger 112K km).

The MPV has been a great vehicle over the almost 15 years we've owned it, but we're feeling that it's getting too ancient to take on long trips. It's been mostly a backup vehicle for the last five years. We'd likely pass it on to our son & daughter-in-law. It would likely do them for the next couple of years.

The 5 is great fun with the manual transmission, but is small and suffers when we're hauling bikes (with a hitch-mounted carrier). Although it's a 6-seater, in practice a trip with five and bikes would involve a rooftop carrier for luggage and one bike on top.

I'd buy another MPV, but the MY '06 were the last ones sold here and the supply is drying up. I'd like something newer anyway.

I'm a bit scared of the domestics with all of the horror stories about the Mopar transmissions & electrical gremlins and the Uplander (GM) head-gaskets.

The Hondas & Toyotas seem to be way overpriced, which leads to look at the Hyundai/Kia twins for the 1st time. (I've not been impressed with Nissan since Renault took it over.)

I've did a bit of work on my friend's '04 Sedona and it seemed to be well-engineered and well-built. It was written off before it got up in years & mileage, so I don't know how it would have held up over the long term. There are not many around, but I'm not sure whether that's because they haven't lasted or whether there weren't many sold.

Anyway, here's my 2-pronged question ...

If I could find a good late model (say 2009 or later) are the GM & Chrysler vans better than I've been led to believe? Are some years better than others? One friend has a '13 Grand Caravan w/ the 3.6 l Pentastar & the 6-speed tx and it's been a great vehicle. Another has an '04 Venture (Uplander predecessor) w/ the pushrod 3.4 4-speed tx and is delighted with it, especially the mileage on the highway. (He had a '98 Caravan and a an '03 Grand Caravan previously, and both were problematic.)

If not a domestic, are the Kia & Hyundai vans good? They are sure priced attractively used compared to their Japanese counterparts.

Any advice appreciated! Many thanks in advance, and thanks for wading through this wordy post.
 
Those vans you speak of are nothing fancy, but both seem to be quite solid running...an old co worker had 130k on her Kia, and it had nothing but the basics done...

If you go FCA, stick with the 2011 and up vans. Parents have a 2012 T&C, and it has been flawless so far. The pentastar has some nice get up and go....


Also thinking a Ford C Max may be right up your ally (compares to the MPV/5)
 
The Dodge Grand Caravans now are great vehicles. Only buy 2011 & newer. They have the 3.6L engine, which is great. But some of the 2011 & 2012 years have been known to have defective cylinder heads (front head) and it was fixed for the 2013 model year. My grandmother just bought a 2014 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT (loaded model, just no navigation or leather) with 27k miles for $16,500. 7 year 100k mile powertrain warranty (certified used).

If you can find a screaming deal on a 2011 or 2012 go for it.
 
hyundai entourage was availbale in US for only 1 year.

so probably that lives the kia sedona.

also the new 2011-and up caravan is pretty space-y inside, hence some of the preferred for the trades.

i would check what your local taxis uses the most:
here (chicago) is a mix of caravan and sienna
 
Dodge has been making the Grand Caravan forever. They are a good car. And priced right too.

Pretty soon they will stop making the Dodge Grand Caravan and will only sell the Chrysler Town and Country because it makes more money for FCA. I'd take a Dodge/Chrysler any day of the week and twice on Sunday before a Kia.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
The Dodge Grand Caravans now are great vehicles. Only buy 2011 & newer. They have the 3.6L engine, which is great. But some of the 2011 & 2012 years have been known to have defective cylinder heads (front head) and it was fixed for the 2013 model year. My grandmother just bought a 2014 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT (loaded model, just no navigation or leather) with 27k miles for $16,500. 7 year 100k mile powertrain warranty (certified used).

If you can find a screaming deal on a 2011 or 2012 go for it.


The 2011 and 2012 caravans don't have the HD brakes, which means frequent brake repairs. Look for a 2013 and up. I bought a 2015 grand caravan last year. I previously had a 98 Sienna.

I love the power of the pentastar engine and the full stow n go can't be beat.
 
You will be well served with the any of the Chrysler mini's. The later models with the new 3.6 Pentastar engine and 6 speed transmission are the best of breed. I would go with any of those depending on the deal.

I have bought 8 Chrysler minivans, and have owned one of each model/engine. All have been bought used. My latest is a 2006 Chrysler town & country I bought for my son and his new bride. In 2013 I bought a used 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT. It has been outstanding. Better performance and better gas mileage then the 2000 Grand Caravan it replaced.
 
Guys, thanks very much for the responses. The C-Max is a good Mazda 5 rival, but I'm looking to complement the 5 with something larger. I would keep the 5 for in town and for highway trips for just the two of us. (Have to keep at least one vehicle with a manual tranny!) When the 5's not heavily loaded it can turn in good highway mileage - around 6.5 l/100 km. With four people and with bikes on the back, we're crowded and up to about 8 l/100 km, which is about the same as my friend's '13 Grand Caravan.

The Mopars are sounding pretty good. Nothing against Kia & Hyundai, but the parts availability for a Dodge would be great.

I like doing my own wrenching and would be good with most of the small stuff that might fail. I would not tackle an automatic tx, but otherwise am not scared of the Dodge.

About the weak brakes on the pre-2013s ... could I swap over the upgraded hubs/rotors/calipers from a 2013 or newer? (Or just bite the bullet and pay a bit more for a 2013 or newer.)

I'd like to hold out for the 3.6 l Pentastar ... when did it come in? When did the 6-speed replace the problematic 4-speed? Was there a 5-speed in between?

Thanks again.
 
When we were shopping vans, we found that the older Hyundai/Kia vans were way, way obsolete compared to the others, and the newest Kia vans were overpriced and overly fancy, not a good deal or fuel efficient.

If money is an issue, look for a low end dodge caravan of later years.
 
You could not give me a Chrysler minivan. I have 7 in my fleet (05-11) and I would pay to have them towed into a black hole. NASA, here is my CC, bill away. You can get them to 170K+ like some of mine, but you will fund several mechanics children through college.

That said, the Chevy Uplander is worse. I would pay the tow truck to run the giver over. With the Honda Tranny failure making it into the bottom 3.

As for the KIA, be careful with the years. Around the recession, they were moving from licensing a lot of other manufacturer's parts to making their own. Not bad, but there was a learning curve. I think they are a lot better now and better than what some others were making but there were not near the Mazda/Toyota quality.
 
I think if you research it, the 2012+ Grand Caravan (and variants of) will be your sweet spot, especially when equipped with the HD brakes. HD brakes were not standard on these vans until the 2014 model year. They were optional up until 2013. Even if you don't have them, it's not a big deal because you can fit them with good aftermarket brakes and they'll last a decent amount.

Like said, the Pentastar and 62TE trans is a great powertrain.

For maximum low cost long term ownership, I'd try for a basic America's Value Package Grand Caravan with the 2nd row bench seat and no rear HVAC. Rear HVAC can be an issue down the road with ANY make/model MV.
 
the 2014+ dodge/chrysler are great in the powertrain dept. For the difference in price on the secondary market you could replace the transmission a few times even if they were still having problems (which I can't find any evidence of).
 
I just realized this is a canadian who is not complaining about rust issues with Mazda....Hrm.....interesting.
 
Originally Posted By: pandus13
hyundai entourage was availbale in US for only 1 year.

so probably that lives the kia sedona.

also the new 2011-and up caravan is pretty space-y inside, hence some of the preferred for the trades.

i would check what your local taxis uses the most:
here (chicago) is a mix of caravan and sienna
Good suggestion.

I'd say over 95% of the taxis here are Toyota Priuses. I've seen a handful of Dodges in service as wheelchair vans, but that's about it.

When the supply of Crown Vickies started drying up, one of the cab companies moved over to the then-new (2007 or so?) RWD Chrysler 300s, but they were not on the road for long as taxis. I don't know if the problem was fuel consumption or reliability.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I just realized this is a canadian who is not complaining about rust issues with Mazda....Hrm.....interesting.
Our '97 MPV has been pretty good - it's got surface rust around the rear wheel wells now, but nothing structural that makes it unsafe. Not bad for the age here in the semi-rust belt, but I had it oil sprayed from when we bought it in '01 until around '12. I hit the visible rust w/ a rattle can of Rust Check which helps.

It seems that Mazda's worst rust issues were c. '00 - '05. Our '01 Protege (now driven by our son) is very rusty to the point where the rust will drive it off the road. Too bad, because the powertrain is still good at around 250K km.

It's too early to say with our '09 Mazda 5, but so far so good.
 
My thoughts on the Chrysler vans:

1st gen (84-90) - K-Car based. Not bad w/ the 5-speed manual or the 3-speed Torqueflite. Beware of the first of the 4-speed automatics. Run like the plague away from the Mitsubishi-sourced engines (the 2.6 and 3.0).

2nd gen (91-95) - Pretty good except for the 4-speed AT.

3rd gen (96-00?) - Lots of electrical problems, and the AT woes continue. These are probably the ones to avoid.

4th gen (01-07?) - More AT woes. Chrysler 3.3 & 3.8 engines are solid.

5th gen (08 - present) - AT woes until the 6-speed in '11. Also for '11 the 3.6 l Pentastar replaces the pushrod 3.3 & 3.8. So far both the 6-speed and the Pentastar seem to be holding up well.

My impression of the 2011+ Dodges is good, but I just bought the new Lemon-Aid book. It's been a Canadian institution since the early 70s. (Americans: Phil Edmonston is a bit of Ralph Nader type, but with more of a sense of humour. Kiwis & Aussies: Lemon-Aid is very much like The Dog & Lemon Guide.) The new Lemon-Aid absolutely trashes the Dodge vans, especially the Pentastar engine! Now I don't what to believe.

Just to confound things, Lemon-Aid says nothing about the Kia & Hyundai vans.
 
Originally Posted By: Number_35
Just to confound things, Lemon-Aid says nothing about the Kia & Hyundai vans.
Ah, just found this in my 2013 Lemon-Aid:

"Yes, Hyundai and its Kia division have made some bad vehicles, and we don't have to go as far back as the trouble-prone trio: the 1984 Pony, 1985 Stellar, or 1986 Excel. Instead we can point to more contemporary junkers like the discontinued 2007 Hyundai Entourage minivan and its Kia twin, the aging 2001-2012 Sedona. Both cars are Not Recommended buys from their launch dates to the present because they are so unreliable and poorly made. Nevertheless, these minivans attract bargain hunters due to their low resale price and user-friendly, roomy, versatile, and comfortable interior ... Poor reliability has traditionally been the Sedona/Entourage's weakest link. The greatest concerns: brake pads and rotors; AC compressor; fuel and electrical systems; engine (misfiring, head gaskets leaks, and timing chain wearout), transmissions (failures and lock-ups); hard starts or no-starts; faulty throttle position sensors that cause chronic stalling or bucking when accelerating; and overall body construction, especially sliding door glitches ..."

Gah, no wonder the prices for used low-mileage examples are so low here (< C$10K for an '09 w/ < 100K km).
 
After having driven a few Chrysler Town and Country Rental mini vans-they might be a decent buy new but I wouldn't buy a used one.


Of course, that has basically been already stated a few posts above.
 
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Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
As for the KIA, be careful with the years. Around the recession, they were moving from licensing a lot of other manufacturer's parts to making their own. Not bad, but there was a learning curve. I think they are a lot better now and better than what some others were making but there were not near the Mazda/Toyota quality.
The 2012+ Chrysler vans are still pretty pricey here. Looked at a 2009 Kia Sedona this evening just a few km from my house, at a suburban used car lot with a reasonable reputation. The lot was closed, so I could only check out the exterior. It looked great, and has only 94K km (c. 58K miles). I'd like to see how it drives, and will listen for the dreaded timing chain rattle. To be continued ...
 
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