High SAPS & DPF Re-Gen

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Do high saps engine oils trigger dpf re-gens more often than low saps engine oils?

Would a dpf equipped engine need to consume oil before saps become an issue?
 
If I recall it right. Some hard ashes from high saps potentially attaches to don't get burned pretty good in a regen, leaving hard residoes that pile up and decrease efficiency of the system. They areharder to burnout, as compared to the trapped soot targeted to the system.
 
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Originally Posted By: CT8
What signals the regen?

I believe there's a back pressure sensor that triggers regen at a certain threshold.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
What signals the regen?
In Ford Powerstrokes and I assume others as well, it is the percent loading of soot in the DPF that triggers it.
 
Originally Posted By: claluja
Are all oils that meet CJ-4 (such as T6) considered low SAPs?

No, it depends for what application.
T6 would be considered almost Full SAPS for my BMW.
So, use what your manual says. But I would go with lowest available SAPS oil that your truck(or car) can use it.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: claluja
Are all oils that meet CJ-4 (such as T6) considered low SAPs?

No, as far as HDEOs go, they are considered mid-SAPS, at least by ACEA standards.

Yeah, T6 is Mid-SAPS by ACEA standards for that application.
However, it would not be able to meet C3 standard (personal vehicles).
 
I consider CJ-4 engine oils low saps as it applies to domestic Diesel trucks compared to the previous CI-4+ API classification.
Garak, I found an old Mobil product booklet from 2005 that listed Esso branded engine oils. All the XD-3s were 1.49 %/wt SA, TBN 12.
Now the SA is I had a dozen liters of CH-4 left in 0w30 and tried that in my LML Dmax for 6 months last winter.
The level never changed on the dipstick over 10K km, but it seemed to always be in regen mode.
Maybe the engine "sees" the additive package and ash is going into the exhaust without changing the oil level.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
I consider CJ-4 engine oils low saps as it applies to domestic Diesel trucks compared to the previous CI-4+ API classification.
Garak, I found an old Mobil product booklet from 2005 that listed Esso branded engine oils. All the XD-3s were 1.49 %/wt SA, TBN 12.
Now the SA is I had a dozen liters of CH-4 left in 0w30 and tried that in my LML Dmax for 6 months last winter.
The level never changed on the dipstick over 10K km, but it seemed to always be in regen mode.
Maybe the engine "sees" the additive package and ash is going into the exhaust without changing the oil level.

Do not forget evaporation loss.
DPF will go into regen. mode more often in city driving and using higher SAPS oils.
Try Valvoline 5W40 MST. Has SA level of .76
 
Thanks edyvw;
I save the synthetics for winter, my short winter trip is 80km/day. I hate using a HD truck for grocery getting duties.
The oil gets changed 3x a year; April, July and November.
My April and July engine oil is $4.00/L CF-2 low ash SAE40, M1 303s (?) off the top of my head.
There are so many good 0w40 & 5w40 CJ-4s now, I just might watch for a sale and pick whatever is the cheapest.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah, T6 is Mid-SAPS by ACEA standards for that application. However, it would not be able to meet C3 standard (personal vehicles).

Yes, definitely not the same.

userfriendly: Well, I guess it depends how you compare them, with the legacy stuff still falling under the full-SAPS category. E6 stuff, like Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 and the Delo LE 5w-30 and the Castrol equivalent are considered low-SAPS by the ACEA descriptions. SA is much the same, but sulphur and phosphorus are cut. The E9 designation is for mid-SAPS, whereas the E7 can cover older and newer additive levels, since the maximums are much higher. Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 is E7, E9, being mid-SAPS, yet still having the enhanced TBN of E7.
 
Yeah, trying to figure out why so many float Euro certs as if they are the cat's meow. There are roughly 1 million commercial diesels in the U.S. that rack up some very serious miles each year using CJ-4 rated oils and it is not causing major problems with DPF's. CJ-4 was developed with DPF in mind, along with using 15 ppm ULSD diesel, which is the standard across the U.S. for road diesel. Most times, DPF issues center around improper operation and not doing DPF cleaning procedure on a periodic basis. I would be more concerned with CCV systems that are standard on diesels now. It is amazing the amount of oil that gets drawn thru the CCV system and becomes a part of the intake and combustion process and makes for some very nasty exhaust. Makes the low SAPS argument seem almost lame.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Yeah, trying to figure out why so many float Euro certs as if they are the cat's meow. There are roughly 1 million commercial diesels in the U.S. that rack up some very serious miles each year using CJ-4 rated oils and it is not causing major problems with DPF's. CJ-4 was developed with DPF in mind, along with using 15 ppm ULSD diesel, which is the standard across the U.S. for road diesel. Most times, DPF issues center around improper operation and not doing DPF cleaning procedure on a periodic basis. I would be more concerned with CCV systems that are standard on diesels now. It is amazing the amount of oil that gets drawn thru the CCV system and becomes a part of the intake and combustion process and makes for some very nasty exhaust. Makes the low SAPS argument seem almost lame.


One of the first, if not the very first DPF users in Europe were PSA (citroën/peugeot). Back then we (dealers) used full SAPS oil in them, and I only ever had to replace 1 DPF. That was a very high mileage car. It becomes an issue when you approach the maximum allowed oil consumption only.

One the other hand, I do get DPF failures* in now, all from cars on a low SAPS diet. For most you can identify an error but some you can't. New DPF solves it in those cases.

But I do see the results of running longer OCI's on low SAPS oils and it's not pretty. Castrol doesn't even have a full SAPS offering anymore in the xW-30 range, over here. That's more of an issue than the other way around, in my experience.

* Actually, it's mostly the catalyst comprised in the DPF that fails.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Yeah, trying to figure out why so many float Euro certs as if they are the cat's meow.

You keep bringing up millions of diesels in North America and the irrelevance of ACEA certifications. Take a close look at the lubricants used in North America, in this million engines. I bet if I list off Delo, Delvac, Rotella, and even Vection and Elixon and Petro-Canada, I would wager that would cover over 90% of the sump volume, and I'm talking conventional, blends, and synthetics combined. Those lubes are all ACEA E7, E9 or E6, E7, E9. They're virtually all E9, since that's pretty much the CJ-4 baseline. E7 gives you the higher TBN that most want, rather than the minimum of 7. And, those who choose a 5w-30 HDEO are almost certainly using an E6 lubricant, whether they admit it or want it.

So, around million heavy duty diesel engines in the U.S. are running ACEA lubes. Look at the data sheet of every major HDEO out there. Schaeffer's even claims the specs for its 5w-40, at the very least.
 
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