Ghost Gunner

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Serious question. And it's a simply yes or no. I don't need a 3 paragraph dissertation. Have you ever dealt with, or spoken to an ATF agent in your life regarding ANY of this?
NO. Now you answer my simple question.

billt460. Answer yes or no. Is it technically legal for a private citizen to make an AR15 from a piece of aluminum?

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
NO.


I didn't think so. I told you before I'm not playing word games with you. You have been told by 2 FFL holders in two different states on this very thread, how the ATF does not see everything in black and white the way you do. Or the way you think they do. You don't like hearing that, and continue to proceed down a road that you personally admit to having exactly ZERO EXPERIENCE navigating.

The ATF does not have to be "right" in order to cause a citizen so much trouble you'll wish you were never born. There is example after example of it everywhere. You are point blank being stupid if you engage in this type of practice. Especially in the wake of scandals like Fast & Furious.

Stop trying to continuously prove your stupidity, and educate yourself about these people, and what they are capable of. Ever heard of Ares Armor? They, much like you, were "right". Look at what happened to them regarding 80% lowers.

http://www.infowars.com/atf-raids-gun-parts-store-and-seizes-customer-data/



"Perhaps they’re attempting to scare people away from buying from these companies, so that they go out of business. That’s a reasonable conclusion, considering that the ATF proceeded with the raid even though the agency was in the wrong."

Again, as both I and Sarge have told you, these people have the authority to destroy your life. If you want to taunt them over legalities, I could care less. I've dealt with these people on countless occasions, and I can tell you from EXPERIENCE if they don't like what you're doing, for whatever reason, they have the ability to make your life a living non stop nightmare you will never wake up from. You must answer to them, and they answer to NO ONE.

You really need to smarten up, and stop trying to showcase your foolishness. All you see is black and white. The ATF sees and operates in whatever shade of grey they choose to paint. This they've proven countless times. I'm finished with you. You enjoy pushing foolish positions, where the risk far outweighs any possible non existent reward. As I told you before, only stupid people engage in those kind of games. In this area you've more than proven you have the expertise to play with the best of them. I wish you luck. Now go ahead and continue in your little Internet fantasy world of entertaining yourself about how "right" you are. For someone who claims to be well past his 20's, you sure don't prove it very effectively with the written word. Wise up.

 

[hatt]

billt460. Answer yes or no. Is it technically legal for a private citizen to make an AR15 from a piece of aluminum?

 

[bubbatime]

 

[ZeeOSix]

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/homemade-guns-are-they-legal-must-they-be-registered.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4504447&postcount=2

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix




https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4504447&postcount=2
Forums are notorious for bad info. Here'a forum link with a letter from the ATF.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2233453&postcount=45

Quote:
ATF says

Also, for your information, a nonlicensee may manufacture a semiautomatic rifle for his or her own personal use. As long as the firearm remains in the custody of the person who manufactured it, the firearm need not be marked with a serial number or name and location of the manufacturer. However, if the firearm is transferred to another party at some point in the future, the firearm must be marked in accordance with the provisions set forth in 27 CFR § 478.92 (formerly 178.92).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4504447&postcount=2
Forums are notorious for bad info.


Yes, I know ... and I posted those two links because there was some conflicting information about selling/transferring a homemade gun.

Per the letter from the ATF (2nd paragraph on page 2), it clearly says a non-licensed individual can make his own firearm and it doesn't need a serial number or any markings if the firearm is kept by the maker. But if the homemade gun is sold/transferred then it must be marked in accordance with other specified rules/regulations. Doesn't get into any details on registration, etc requirements by the buyer/transferee. The letter is from 2004, so I'm assuming this information is still valid?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4504447&postcount=2
Forums are notorious for bad info.


Yes, I know ... and I posted those two links because there was some conflicting information about selling/transferring a homemade gun.

Per the letter from the ATF (2nd paragraph on page 2), it clearly says a non-licensed individual can make his own firearm and it doesn't need a serial number or any markings if the firearm is kept by the maker. But if the homemade gun is sold/transferred then it must be marked in accordance with other specified rules/regulations. Doesn't get into any details on registration, etc requirements by the buyer/transferee. The letter is from 2004, so I'm assuming this information is still valid?
Yes, still valid. There have been no major changes to Fed gun laws since 04 when the ban sunset. The transfer requirements would be the same as selling any other similar factory built gun in that state.

 

[TheOnlySarge]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4504447&postcount=2
Forums are notorious for bad info.


Yes, I know ... and I posted those two links because there was some conflicting information about selling/transferring a homemade gun.

Per the letter from the ATF (2nd paragraph on page 2), it clearly says a non-licensed individual can make his own firearm and it doesn't need a serial number or any markings if the firearm is kept by the maker. But if the homemade gun is sold/transferred then it must be marked in accordance with other specified rules/regulations. Doesn't get into any details on registration, etc requirements by the buyer/transferee. The letter is from 2004, so I'm assuming this information is still valid?

If one was to sell his/her homemade gun across State Lines then yes you would need to comply with Fed law. If within the State between two citizens of that State....no. It does not apply. In Texas anyway there is no such law. Sell your homemade gun in the parking lot of Bass Pro and have a nice day.

 

[BrocLuno]

In Cali, go to jail for a State Felony

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
How badly do you need a lower that's "untraceable" and comes without any factory support?


Exactly. I think this whole "80% lower" nonsense is all far more trouble than it's worth. You can purchase 100% finished lower receivers on sale for a song from places like CDNN and Palmetto. And they're guaranteed to work correctly. These "kitchen table specials", built on 80% lowers by people with zero machining experience, have as much desirability and resale value as a rusty Gremlin or Pacer. Think about it. Would you buy one?

As far as the government boogey man, that in itself is a joke. If the government wanted your non serialized, home made guns that bad, they would simply legislate you into being a criminal. Just like they're doing in California and New York with 30 round magazines. All it will take is a mass shooting with one of these 80% guns, or a terrorist bomb made with Tannerite from Cabela's, and watch how fast both of them disappear, and become illegal by merely possessing them.


The premise of your comment is about resale value. But, in all likelihood, this is not about resale ... This is about building the gun. Yes you can make it from a registered lower, but how you do that here in Cali is complicated by the State Laws.

It's either a fully functional AR-15 with a pistol grip, etc - and therefor by State Law, an assault rifle, and must be registered in the State as such to the CA DOJ with photos of the config; or it's a non-traditional AR w/o "evil features" and is just another CF rifle. In either case it can not use magazines over 10 rounds.

To my knowledge, Cali has not stopped anyone from making rifles or shotguns. They just require State registration of ones made in certain configurations ... I dunno about pistols ...

I was an 03FFL for many years, but it has gotten to weird to continue, so I'm just a citizen now

I've sold most of the good collector stuff. I have a few pieces of WW-II stuff that I may try to assemble as mix master rifles, but I might just sell the parts too... I have not figured out how to deal with that stuff yet... Have too much else going on.