Amsoil - Strategic Direction

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: jaj
The strategic problem that the specialty blenders have is that the "specialty blends" no longer offer better performance than the commercial products they're supposed to be better than.

In engine oils, the specialty products are as good as the latest spec consumer products on the parameters that matter, surpassing the consumer blends only on parameters that don't make much difference in an engine. Gear oils are the same. Modern OEM gear oils today have better base stocks and additive packages than the specialty blends that were designed to compete with the old technology OEM products from two decades ago.

The specialty products that were vastly better than the 1990's OEM oils are no match for the 2016 factory products. The specialty blending community isn't fighting for market share any more - it's fighting to remain relevant.


Thank you. Couldn't say it better

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: davison0976
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Pablo

You guys do know Redline is PAO and some ester, right?


So, you're saying that Redline is mostly PAO with some ester? Based on their marketing material, they would have us believe that it is predominantly ester.


No, I am not saying that. That's what Pablo is saying. Please check back the posts, it's on page 2.


Sorry Davison, I didn't mean to include your screen name in the quote brackets. As you can see, my quote was directed at Pablo.

Pablo, any input?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: jaj
The strategic problem that the specialty blenders have is that the "specialty blends" no longer offer better performance than the commercial products they're supposed to be better than.

In engine oils, the specialty products are as good as the latest spec consumer products on the parameters that matter, surpassing the consumer blends only on parameters that don't make much difference in an engine. Gear oils are the same. Modern OEM gear oils today have better base stocks and additive packages than the specialty blends that were designed to compete with the old technology OEM products from two decades ago.

The specialty products that were vastly better than the 1990's OEM oils are no match for the 2016 factory products. The specialty blending community isn't fighting for market share any more - it's fighting to remain relevant.


Wells said. Very true.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: jaj
The strategic problem that the specialty blenders have is that the "specialty blends" no longer offer better performance than the commercial products they're supposed to be better than.

In engine oils, the specialty products are as good as the latest spec consumer products on the parameters that matter, surpassing the consumer blends only on parameters that don't make much difference in an engine. Gear oils are the same. Modern OEM gear oils today have better base stocks and additive packages than the specialty blends that were designed to compete with the old technology OEM products from two decades ago.

The specialty products that were vastly better than the 1990's OEM oils are no match for the 2016 factory products. The specialty blending community isn't fighting for market share any more - it's fighting to remain relevant.


Fair point. However, how many mainstream oils are long-drain interval oils? How many people are using long-drain intervals with mainstream oils? How many manufacturers spec long-drain intervals? Yeah, M1 EP is 15k, but Amsoil is 25k. How many people actually take it to 15k vs Amsoil users who use the full capacity of the oil?

There is also the aspect of how does using a particular oil make you feel. Using specialty blends can make you feel special in a way using mainstream oils does not. Marketing and product image plays a huge part.

 

[Saxon78]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Pablo
You guys do know Redline is PAO and some ester, right?


So, you're saying that Redline is mostly PAO with some ester? Based on their marketing material, they would have us believe that it is predominantly ester.


Check out their SDS, especially the third one (828863)

sds

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: zveroboy
Check out their SDS, especially the third one (828863)

sds


Wow. Didn't expect that. Their marketing video misleads their product.

 

[userfriendly]

I thought meeting API certification was just a matter of picking an additive package and the recommended base oil blend.
I for one would not put a mystery product in an engine.
Suncor's Petro-Can brand is clear in their publication, for example "Built on the same platform as our other Duron CJ-4/SM products, but is not API licensed".
Perfect for off-warranty equipment, or owner operators who need a specific performance.
Not licensing a product may at best, save a few bucks over thousands of drums.

 

[4WD]

Fan of getting Mobil-1 for $5/qt at Walmart - then it does not bother me to change at 5k ...

 

[CT8]

Ask the guys on board with the semi trucks if Amsoil or Redline oil works better in their $50,000.00 engines

 

[Gene K]

Amsoil has a strategy?

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: dew
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I don't use or follow Amsoil products, so I'm out of the loop. Got a source for their synthetic being group 3 now? Kind of hard to believe they'd charge $10+/quart for group 3, no matter how good the additives.


Sorry, I don't have the link at the moment but there is a fairly recent YouTube video comparing the ability to pour at about -40 F for 4 different 5w30 oils. Amsoil, M1, Royal Purple & Supertech dino.

It didn't look rigged to me. The M1 started running immediatly, mopping the floor with Amsoil. The presenter had lined up the oils in the expected order of performance (Ams 1st). The RP and ST were basically solids..

Not saying that makes the Amsoil bad at all, but don't think that would have happened if it were primarily PAO...


Ya lost me at "YouTube video"

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Ask the guys on board with the semi trucks if Amsoil or Redline oil works better in their $50,000.00 engines


How would they know? Anecdote? Analysis?
You'll either have to elaborate.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: davison0976

Based on your own statements do you see where the problem is? Amsoil these days has absolutely no information about base stock they use. There is no official certifications for the SS line oils, not even API SN. And, they want you to pay a premium. A consumer has to make a serious leap of faith to trust such a product. Isn't that score 3-0 Amsoil vs any customer who chose to buy their product?


As was mentioned previously- many of the additives that people tend to like in large amounts (zinc/phosphorus are the first couple off the top of my head- though there are more) can't be in an oil AND still meet current API certifications.



Originally Posted By: davison0976


No, I don't particularly care about how lubricants are formulated because that can't be much more than a monkey job. It's not like you are designing new molecules. Molecules that basic have been known for over 100 years now. Synthetic aspirin was created in the 60's, if not earlier, did you see what that molecule looks like? Formulation is about mixing existing ingredients and testing. It is a very intensive work, but a monkey job nevertheless, most of which has been outsourced to other continents I am sure.

The reference to Tide is a figurative speech. What's ridiculous is that you can't recognize that.



LOL! You really have no idea how oils are formulated do you? I'd like to see you do a better job.



So, to sum this thread up: You think you know what's best and what you want but have no real idea of what you're saying or getting.

If you'd be willing to keep your mind open and your proverbial mouth closed, I'm sure that people like Molecule, Pablo, TomNJ, Doug Hillary and probably more that I'm missing- all of whom have been inside the industry for a VERY long time as sales, formulators and R&D would probably be willing to delve deeper into your questions. If you keep spouting off with inflammatory statements then longtime, knowledgeable members usually have no desire to pass their knowledge. These folks are very helpful individuals, but they don't typically show up in threads like these because it's generally a waste of their time.

 

[buster]

I can't see how the boutique blenders stay in the game as time goes on. Other than little niche products, it's hard to see how they can compete.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: buster
I can't see how the boutique blenders stay in the game as time goes on. Other than little niche products, it's hard to see how they can compete.


I think you are excluding the human factor from the equation.

When you talk to RP users on BITOG do they care that the Fram Ultra is cheaper than a RP filter and just as good? Of course not.

I think there will always be a market for boutique oils.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: buster
I can't see how the boutique blenders stay in the game as time goes on. Other than little niche products, it's hard to see how they can compete.


I think you are excluding the human factor from the equation.

When you talk to RP users on BITOG do they care that the Fram Ultra is cheaper than a RP filter and just as good? Of course not.

I think there will always be a market for boutique oils.


What's even funnier (or sad?) is that those same persons will say Oh man I hate Fram products but this here RP oil filter is awesome. Um, hey brainiac, it's made by the same company!

 

[vitez]

I've been using mostly Amsoil products for many years. Why? Because their products are generally excellent, ordering online is convenient, and I've had good success with them. The main thing I like is the extended drain intervals with SS products.

My life is busy. I like wrenching for fun but I also like to be able to do it when I have time and feel like it, not because I must, therefore annual OCI's are perfect for me which I get with Amsoil SS products. I also use their EaO oil filters.

Are Amsoil products too expensive? Not in Canada. My last order in March included a case of SS 5W-30. Total cost per quart was $11.94. Today's Canadian Tire retail price for Castrol Edge EP 5W-30 is $58.99 plus our 13% sales taxes for a 4.4 litre jug, or $15.15 per litre. M1 EP 5W-30 is on sale at $10.91 +13%= $12.33 per qt, list price is $16.79 per qt. So if I order Amsoil I get excellent oil shipped to my door for cheaper than the major brands on-the-shelf pricing, and I don't have to keep checking stores or website in the hopes of catching a sale.

My wife's car is a 2005 Pacifica 3.5, now at 293,000 km (183,000 miles). I switched to Amsoil SS 0W-30 at 18,000 km and have done only annual OCI's since. The engine runs fine. Could I have accomplished the same with other oils? Probably. But I certainly would have had to change oil more than once a year at a higher annual cost.

So for me, Amsoil products do what they promise, are convenient to purchase, convenient to use, and are cost effective. Therefore I'm going to continue to use them.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: vitez
I've been using mostly Amsoil products for many years. Why? Because their products are generally excellent, ordering online is convenient, and I've had good success with them. The main thing I like is the extended drain intervals with SS products.

My life is busy. I like wrenching for fun but I also like to be able to do it when I have time and feel like it, not because I must, therefore annual OCI's are perfect for me which I get with Amsoil SS products. I also use their EaO oil filters.


And you couldn't do that with other products ?

M1 0W40 for example is good for exactly the same duration and mileage.

I'm not sure of any engine, or oil that require you (for example) to exit a meeting at work to do an oil change.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: vitez
I've been using mostly Amsoil products for many years. Why? Because their products are generally excellent, ordering online is convenient, and I've had good success with them. The main thing I like is the extended drain intervals with SS products.

My life is busy. I like wrenching for fun but I also like to be able to do it when I have time and feel like it, not because I must, therefore annual OCI's are perfect for me which I get with Amsoil SS products. I also use their EaO oil filters.


And you couldn't do that with other products ?

M1 0W40 for example is good for exactly the same duration and mileage.

I'm not sure of any engine, or oil that require you (for example) to exit a meeting at work to do an oil change.


0W40 is not the specified viscosity for the car.

Obviously it's not going to require you to leave work. However, it's one weekend afternoon you won't be changing oil. 1 OCI vs 2 OCIs per year is a huuuuge difference. Especially if you own multiple cars.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111

0W40 is not the specified viscosity for the car.

Obviously it's not going to require you to leave work. However, it's one weekend afternoon you won't be changing oil. 1 OCI vs 2 OCIs per year is a huuuuge difference. Especially if you own multiple cars.


OK...Any one of the M1 range will do fine on annual oil changes.

There's absolutely nothing IN Amsoil that makes it better than M1 for annual oil changes, it's just marketted that way by a company that seeks no formal approvals for their oils, and makes a lot of promises that the majors aren't prepared to do.