Stick shifts everywhere!

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: supton
My VW 1.9TDI was a bit of a dog below 60mph in 5th gear, was around 2k rpm IIRC. But it didn't take much above that for it to wake up and pull.


Those haven't been made for ages though... you won't find them in a rental, they're usually sold within the 1st year.


? I used to own one, did so for 11 years. Same model is still around on the used market, although I'm sure many have died now.

My point was, despite being a diesel, it did not have diesel-like response. Off-idle it was no powerhouse. Thus I could see how 1.6L TDi might be perceived as even more of a dog. Those mills needed to be wrung out a bit, 2k-4k is where they needed to be. Sub-2k is just for puttering around.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Maybe we make more people sitting in Starbux making small talk, and help with obesity epidemic.

I understand the general point you were trying to make, but whether you sip your latte sitting inside your car or sitting inside Starbucks, you are still getting no exercise, so that's not going to help with obesity.

The difference in Europe and other countries is that people walk to places. We here in the US do not, unless you live and work in the middle of a huge city. And outside of cities, places are spread so far apart, walking is impractical.


Well yeah, but it is comical to see people waiting in line for drive thru, blowing AC, while you can park, get out, order, get back in faster then going through drive thru.
Of course, European cities are much more urban, regardless of their size, and walking is way of life. I always stay amazed when people say: I do exercise, I walk 5 days a week 4 miles. Since when walking is exercise?

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Nothing is as enjoyable as sitting in an hour or more in bumper to bumper traffic with a stick shift.,,,


Well that all depends on the 'feel' of the shift - if the lever snicks in and out of position like a nicely made rifle bolt because of weighted and ball-jointed linkages sitting on brackets with redesigned geometry for reduced fore aft and reduced lateral lever travel, changing just for the sake of it is a very enjoyable sensation in a tactile respect and very satisfying from an engineering standpoint.
Also, crawl at idle in first.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Purists?!

Most chassis don't deserve a manual. Cars are steering and driving pretty poorly these days. safety geometry kills steering feel?


Completely untrue. Handling is better than ever. Chassis are stiffer, tires are wider and grippier and engineering is built into even the lowliest Toyota Yaris (which handles great). You don't know what you are talking about. Or perhaps you miss the awesome handling of your 1978 Granada.


Only someone who doesn't understand the difference between handling and grip could write this.
Tires are wider?
Sure, and any pig of a platform can be made to have plenty of grip with lots of rubber. It won't handle well, though.
Chassis are stiffer?
Not really. Any decent unibody design of the past four decades is plenty stiff, except for those that use subframes, sometimes correctly called snub frames.
The Yaris "handles great"?
You must have driven a different breed of Yaris from the one I sampled. Is there a Lotus Yaris that I somehow missed?
The reality is that a good handling car is one that you can take very close to its limits on a back road with no worries. If you inadvertently push too hard, it's easily and intuitively recoverable.
Many cars that were considered to have good handling then and now have surprisingly little grip as measured on a skidpad. As measured by a driver on the road, they're awesome.
I could suggest a few decades old designs that were very entertaining and safe to drive, from the first generation of the Z-car through early generations of Civics, the W115 or W123 as well as any BMW through the late nineties.
Today's overweight designs rely more upon various nannies for safe handling than upon anything resembling good design or engineering.
Today's drivers seem too inept and distracted to manage three pedals and a shifter you actually have to use.
A pity. Driving should be fun, as much of it as most of us have to do.


This.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Look folks,

Some like to shift, most do not, simple. berating either side with elementary anecdotes and insults is childish.


+10e-35

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
I always stay amazed when people say: I do exercise, I walk 5 days a week 4 miles. Since when walking is exercise?

For someone who just sits all day, walking 4 miles 5 days a week might as well be considered exercise.

It's certainly better than not walking.

 

[KitaCam]

My MTs over the years...
Opel Kadet, Dodge Tradesman Van, BMW 2002, VW Beetle, Ford F150, Fiat 124 Spider, Audi 5000, Plymouth Sapporo (Mitsubishi Galant), Daihatsu Hijet, Subaru Loyale, Nissan Altima (2), Toyota Camry....for about 800k miles....not including a couple of motorcycles.

 

[MCompact]

My MTs:

Datsun SPL-311
Arrow GT 2.6
Bavaria 3.0
535is
M6
T-Bird Turbo Coupe
318ti Club Sport
Wrangler Sahara
Mazdaspeed 3

 

[edyvw]

My MT's:
Zastava 101
Yugo 55
Opel Corsa 1.4
Opel Ascona 2.0 Irmscher
BMW 318 (E30)
BMW 520i (E34)
Opel Vectra 2.0 16V
Lancia Lybra 2.4 jtd
Skoda Octavia A5 1.9tdi

Then I moved to the U.S.
Next car: hopefully MT BMW M235i.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: wemay
Look folks,

Some like to shift, most do not, simple. berating either side with elementary anecdotes and insults is childish.


+10e-35


Usually people say +1 to be in agreement, and -1 to be in disagreement; but to say (essentially) zero means you're... undecided?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Would even THAT hold up to 600lb/ft just off idle? (Yes, I am serious.)


A FULLY 'built' Magnum, or the (supposedly good for 1200 HP and 1000 ft. lbs. of torque at the crank) Rockland Standard Gear "Tranzilla" will.

The worst factor here is the Caddy's MASS you've mentioned, and the subsequent resistance/strain that puts on the drive train with BIG power going through it.

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite




TOMYOUNG: Completely untrue. Handling is better than ever. Chassis are stiffer, tires are wider and grippier and engineering is built into even the lowliest Toyota Yaris (which handles great). You don't know what you are talking about. Or perhaps you miss the awesome handling of your 1978 Granada

ARCO: I had a Yaris, it handled only FAIR, likely due to the garbage squishy, overcompliant strut front suspension with spindly LCA. A late 70's Fiesta or Fiat 128sp would walk all over it. Just think: 1700 lbs dry weight, MANUAL rack and pinion - not garbage E assist steering. I will concede cars do have more POWER though.
I love 4 and 5 gear MT. I look for them though I have been sorely disappointed with what's available i've bought - Including the WAY, WAY overpriced Honda un-Fit sport 5 spd.
In my 40+ years of aggressive driving, I am more experienced with sport compacts than you'll ever be, Dudley do Nuthing. So ... clam it!



This is SO true, I was around when the MK1 Ford Fiesta, and MK1
VW Golf/Rabbit GTI were brand new vehicles on the market, and what ARCO says is ENTIRELY TRUE.

Back then you had significantly lighter cars, with truly manual communicative steering, and while not blazingly fast they were a BLAST to drive and even today these cars feel VERY contemporary and modern, but a million times more engaging to drive.

Most cars today, even some of the best small cars are too heavy, have dull electronic steering, an isolated unibody set up with a subframe that even further isolates the driver from the road and what is going on at the wheels and under them....not to mention that you had cable operated clutches on the MKI Fiesta and Golf/Rabbit they were positive, good weighting, and let you know what was going on, as opposed to today's dull and numb hydraulic assisted clutches..they are horrible and also more trouble prone as well.

I'd take a brand spanking new 1981 Ford Fiesta MK1 or a VW Rabbit GTI over anything you can buy new in the USA today, that is how detached and numb even tbe better small cars feel today.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel

This is SO true, I was around when the MK1 Ford Fiesta, and MK1
VW Golf/Rabbit GTI were brand new vehicles on the market, and what ARCO says is ENTIRELY TRUE.

Back then you had significantly lighter cars, with truly manual communicative steering, and while not blazingly fast they were a BLAST to drive and even today these cars feel VERY contemporary and modern, but a million times more engaging to drive.

Most cars today, even some of the best small cars are too heavy, have dull electronic steering, an isolated unibody set up with a subframe that even further isolates the driver from the road and what is going on at the wheels and under them....not to mention that you had cable operated clutches on the MKI Fiesta and Golf/Rabbit they were positive, good weighting, and let you know what was going on, as opposed to today's dull and numb hydraulic assisted clutches..they are horrible and also more trouble prone as well.

I'd take a brand spanking new 1981 Ford Fiesta MK1 or a VW Rabbit GTI over anything you can buy new in the USA today, that is how detached and numb even tbe better small cars feel today.

This is arguably the best car I ever built/had.

1973 LJ Torana, I put a 186ci six in, big ported/valved head, Waggot EHS4+ grind (23/60) cam, headers, and triple 1-3/4" S.U. carbs...6,500RPM redline, high 14s, and could crack 125MPH.

I was the most enjoyable driving vehicle I've ever owned (you could virtually tell whether a coin was heads or tails if you ran over it 'though...speed bumps were diagonal transition 'though.

As to chest thumping, driving it through Canberra peak hour (nothing to write home about ) clutchless as I'd destroyed my ACL that day at work was testament to how driveable that thing was.

 

[Silk]

This was my last manual, a Lada 2104...horrible in traffic. haven't had a manual since, not by choice, I don't go out looking for cars to buy, they come to me.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: wemay
Look folks,

Some like to shift, most do not, simple. berating either side with elementary anecdotes and insults is childish.


+10e-35


Usually people say +1 to be in agreement, and -1 to be in disagreement; but to say (essentially) zero means you're... undecided?

I couldn't find the power of symbol on my iPad keyboard.. What I meant was plus ten to the 35, because thats how much I agree with him.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Purists?!

Most chassis don't deserve a manual. Cars are steering and driving pretty poorly these days. safety geometry kills steering feel?


TOMYOUNG: Completely untrue. Handling is better than ever. Chassis are stiffer, tires are wider and grippier and engineering is built into even the lowliest Toyota Yaris (which handles great). You don't know what you are talking about. Or perhaps you miss the awesome handling of your 1978 Granada

ARCO: I had a Yaris, it handled only FAIR, likely due to the garbage squishy, overcompliant strut front suspension with spindly LCA. A late 70's Fiesta or Fiat 128sp would walk all over it. Just think: 1700 lbs dry weight, MANUAL rack and pinion - not garbage E assist steering. I will concede cars do have more POWER though.
I love 4 and 5 gear MT. I look for them though I have been sorely disappointed with what's available i've bought - Including the WAY, WAY overpriced Honda un-Fit sport 5 spd.
In my 40+ years of aggressive driving, I am more experienced with sport compacts than you'll ever be, Dudley do Nuthing. So ... clam it!


You missed the difference between grip & handling

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: Silk
This was my last manual, a Lada 2104...horrible in traffic. haven't had a manual since, not by choice, I don't go out looking for cars to buy, they come to me.

LOL, my dad bought exactly the same Lada in 86 or something for ONE pay check. New car for one paycheck. Years after I've bought used one to make some money on it. I ended up driving it for a year. After changing that Russian excuse for carburettor for Dellorto car was actually driveable.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite




TOMYOUNG: Completely untrue. Handling is better than ever. Chassis are stiffer, tires are wider and grippier and engineering is built into even the lowliest Toyota Yaris (which handles great). You don't know what you are talking about. Or perhaps you miss the awesome handling of your 1978 Granada

ARCO: I had a Yaris, it handled only FAIR, likely due to the garbage squishy, overcompliant strut front suspension with spindly LCA. A late 70's Fiesta or Fiat 128sp would walk all over it. Just think: 1700 lbs dry weight, MANUAL rack and pinion - not garbage E assist steering. I will concede cars do have more POWER though.
I love 4 and 5 gear MT. I look for them though I have been sorely disappointed with what's available i've bought - Including the WAY, WAY overpriced Honda un-Fit sport 5 spd.
In my 40+ years of aggressive driving, I am more experienced with sport compacts than you'll ever be, Dudley do Nuthing. So ... clam it!



This is SO true, I was around when the MK1 Ford Fiesta, and MK1
VW Golf/Rabbit GTI were brand new vehicles on the market, and what ARCO says is ENTIRELY TRUE.

Back then you had significantly lighter cars, with truly manual communicative steering, and while not blazingly fast they were a BLAST to drive and even today these cars feel VERY contemporary and modern, but a million times more engaging to drive.

Most cars today, even some of the best small cars are too heavy, have dull electronic steering, an isolated unibody set up with a subframe that even further isolates the driver from the road and what is going on at the wheels and under them....not to mention that you had cable operated clutches on the MKI Fiesta and Golf/Rabbit they were positive, good weighting, and let you know what was going on, as opposed to today's dull and numb hydraulic assisted clutches..they are horrible and also more trouble prone as well.

I'd take a brand spanking new 1981 Ford Fiesta MK1 or a VW Rabbit GTI over anything you can buy new in the USA today, that is how detached and numb even tbe better small cars feel today.

That is the reason I'm holding on my wife's Sporting. Direct, hydraulic steering, stiff suspension, great fun on twisties and moderate speeds.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Olas
I couldn't find the power of symbol on my iPad keyboard.. What I meant was plus ten to the 35, because thats how much I agree with him.


Gotcha. In that case 1e35 would have been fine, or 1e+35, that would give the same result.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: 2016Accord
You can't even count the number of MT Toyotas clogging the roads in Bangkok or Bogota. It is endless.


Those people sitting in those epic traffic jams probably wish they had an automatic transmission.