Painful To Find M1 5W30 ESP

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Originally Posted By: edyvw

The real question is why you want Low-SAPS oil in Subaru? Go to Wal Mart and get Castrol 0W40.
HTHS of M1 5W30 ESP is 3.58cp and Castrol 0W40 is 3.7cp. That is not big difference.
I use Csstrol 0W40 in Tiguan, it is great oil, really good cold start capabilities, good low NOACK etc.


My FXT has a DIT engine and I am looking for low calcium oils as a result...the VOAs I've seen for 5W30 ESP show a calcium level about as low as regular M1 5W30, which I was comfortable with. The NOACKs sound really good (one on this site says 5.6%) and the flash point is over 250C. The things I don't like are a low TBN and a higher viscosity at extreme cold than plain ol M1. This will be a warm weather change, so -30C will not be a concern...actually haven't even had any super cold starts on ski weekends this season with our lack of a winter in New England.
I will be sticking with 5W30 until I am out of warranty and will consider 0/5W40s after that. I did a little poking around and Rotella T6 also has a nice, low calcium level.

BTW, I did find it at Pep Boys...went just before closing tonight with little traffic in our local shopping strip from (heck). I better like this stuff for what I paid for 5 liters (about $64, whew)!!!!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: edyvw

The real question is why you want Low-SAPS oil in Subaru? Go to Wal Mart and get Castrol 0W40.
HTHS of M1 5W30 ESP is 3.58cp and Castrol 0W40 is 3.7cp. That is not big difference.
I use Csstrol 0W40 in Tiguan, it is great oil, really good cold start capabilities, good low NOACK etc.


My FXT has a DIT engine and I am looking for low calcium oils as a result...the VOAs I've seen for 5W30 ESP show a calcium level about as low as regular M1 5W30, which I was comfortable with. The NOACKs sound really good (one on this site says 5.6%) and the flash point is over 250C. The things I don't like are a low TBN and a higher viscosity at extreme cold than plain ol M1. This will be a warm weather change, so -30C will not be a concern...actually haven't even had any super cold starts on ski weekends this season with our lack of a winter in New England.
I will be sticking with 5W30 until I am out of warranty and will consider 0/5W40s after that. I did a little poking around and Rotella T6 also has a nice, low calcium level.

BTW, I did find it at Pep Boys...went just before closing tonight with little traffic in our local shopping strip from (heck). I better like this stuff for what I paid for 5 liters (about $64, whew)!!!!

OK, I was thinking you going to ESP bcs of warranty. Yes, TBN is on low side since it is Low-SAPS oil, or as in U.S. we would refer as "diesel" oil.
Once you are out of warranty, I would move to 0W40's. T6 is OK, but NOACK is high.
Also, I think Mobil is bringing M1 0W40 ESP from Europe with lower TBN then A3/B3 B4 M1, but higher TBN then 5W30 ESP (it is Mid-SAPS oil).
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
OK, I was thinking you going to ESP bcs of warranty. Yes, TBN is on low side since it is Low-SAPS oil, or as in U.S. we would refer as "diesel" oil.
Once you are out of warranty, I would move to 0W40's. T6 is OK, but NOACK is high.
Also, I think Mobil is bringing M1 0W40 ESP from Europe with lower TBN then A3/B3 B4 M1, but higher TBN then 5W30 ESP (it is Mid-SAPS oil).


I did do a little research on the M1 0W-40 I can find at WalMart and memory tells me it had a lot of calcium...looks like Castrol in the same grade replaces some of that with magnesium, which I think is a good thing for my DIT engine. Or at least for my overactive imagination.
Will have to take a closer look at Castrol 0W-40 when the time comes.
 
I've been doing a lot of research on oils for this engine, as I have a 2016 WRX on the way (same engine).

TBN is not a concern, as nobody's running long OCIs on this engine due to its propensity for fuel contamination of the oil (side effect of the direct injection system).

So, the first concern is reduction in viscosity due to fuel dilution. The M1 ESP addresses that because it starts off on the heavy side for a 30, with HTHSV of ~ 3.5. Second, I don't have the data, but it's commonly thought that there is a correlation between intake tract deposits and oils with higher SAPS levels, hence the mid-SAPS levels of M1 ESP.

A third thing that would be a huge benefit of M1-ESP, in my opinion, especially in a TGDI engine such as this, is NOACK, which one member here from Russia (Dmitry) claims he tested at 5.6%, which is an incredibly low number.

The wrench thrown into the whole thing, and which has caused many of us endless consternation, is the fact that Subaru specs an ILSAC GF-5 or an API-SN (Resource-Conserving) 5W-30. The M1 ESP 5W-30 would probably not leave the door open for a denial of warranty claim by a Subaru dealer, as it does carry API-SN (although it doesn't have the "resource conserving" labeling).

Problem is, for those who are buying a vehicle new, or still under factory warranty, we obviously want warranty coverage, but the oil spec'd by Subaru doesn't provide the best protection for our engines. So, we're caught between a rock and a hard place - do we do what's best for the engine, or follow Subaru's edict and have no doubt of warranty coverage, and run oil that dilutes and shears down to pee water in a couple thousand miles?

Many are choosing the former, especially with the WRX, since many who buy that car aren't concerned with warranty coverage anyway, because they immediately mod it.

But, for those of us who ARE keeping the car stock, and don't want to worry about fighting Subaru for warranty coverage in case something goes wrong, it's the constant search for the perfect oil.

Personally, if the 5.6% NOACK of ESP can be verified, that right there is probably enough for me to really think hard about that oil, when it comes time for me to drain the FF.

However, it's also 10 bucks a quart, and I can't run this oil for 10,000 miles like I do the M1-EP in my Tacoma.

Someone here alerted me to the fact that PP 10W-30 has a NOACK of 4.8%!! That gets my attention. Yeah, HTHS ain't that great for a GDI-T engine, but my car will be street-driven, and we're going into summer (fuel dilution with these engines tends to be less in warm weather), and a 10W-30 should hold up better to shear than a 5W-30.

An oil catch can, designed to capture vaporized oil before it can be sucked back down through the intake via the PCV and EGR systems, is also a great idea, I think, for minimization of intake tract deposits.
 
M1 5W30 ESP is Low/Lower SAPS oil, not Mid-SAPS oil.
By your statement Subaru also has issues with fuel dilution (not all DI engines are fuel dilution monsters).
I would do 3K OCI do UOA and then see where you are. ESP starts at 5.6 with TBN, which is not a lot at all.
 
Originally Posted By: spiderbypass
Amazon has 12 liters of Mobil 1 5w30esp for 108.00 with free shipping. I received oil in timely manner.

Yeah, that is where I am getting my stash.
 
Originally Posted By: spiderbypass
Amazon has 12 liters of Mobil 1 5w30esp for 108.00 with free shipping. I received oil in timely manner.


I think there is a similar deal on eBay.
I forked over for 5 liters at Pep Boys ($12.80 per) to try it out, if I decice to stay with it online purchasing will be my way to go.
 
I have noticed that my oil temp monitor seems to be consistently reading ~5 degrees F higher with the ESP than with plain ol M1 5W30...it's not just the warmer weather, we had a cold spell recently and the readings were definitely higher than I was getting in similar weather earlier. I almost always have this displayed and am pretty familiar with what a given driving type at a given outside temperature will give me for an oil temp.
????
Don't know if I should have expected this...the temps were basically the same for M1, QSUD, and whatever 5W30 the dealer used for my early changes. The car is running fine and my mileage hasn't really changed AFAIK. I tried to look up specific heat for the two types of M1 and couldn't find it, but I'm not sure if that property would even be a factor here.
Any thoughts from BITOGers here?
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I have noticed that my oil temp monitor seems to be consistently reading ~5 degrees F higher with the ESP than with plain ol M1 5W30...it's not just the warmer weather, we had a cold spell recently and the readings were definitely higher than I was getting in similar weather earlier. I almost always have this displayed and am pretty familiar with what a given driving type at a given outside temperature will give me for an oil temp.
????
Don't know if I should have expected this...the temps were basically the same for M1, QSUD, and whatever 5W30 the dealer used for my early changes. The car is running fine and my mileage hasn't really changed AFAIK. I tried to look up specific heat for the two types of M1 and couldn't find it, but I'm not sure if that property would even be a factor here.
Any thoughts from BITOGers here?


Combo of HTHS and 100C visco?
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I have noticed that my oil temp monitor seems to be consistently reading ~5 degrees F higher with the ESP than with plain ol M1 5W30...it's not just the warmer weather, we had a cold spell recently and the readings were definitely higher than I was getting in similar weather earlier. I almost always have this displayed and am pretty familiar with what a given driving type at a given outside temperature will give me for an oil temp.
????
Don't know if I should have expected this...the temps were basically the same for M1, QSUD, and whatever 5W30 the dealer used for my early changes. The car is running fine and my mileage hasn't really changed AFAIK. I tried to look up specific heat for the two types of M1 and couldn't find it, but I'm not sure if that property would even be a factor here.
Any thoughts from BITOGers here?

Thicker oil (HTHS) more flow resistance.
 
Think BobFout and edyvw are pretty much saying the same thing, and it makes sense. I'm just surprised it makes such a noticeable difference.
Thanks for the input, guys!
 
I have a VOA of Mobil-1 X1 0W-30 ESP here.

Amazon is your friend, it is way cheaper shipped to my door then buying it at PepBoys (only place locally to me that it's available that I know of).

Chuck
 
Originally Posted By: chucky2
I have a VOA of Mobil-1 X1 0W-30 ESP here.

Amazon is your friend, it is way cheaper shipped to my door then buying it at PepBoys (only place locally to me that it's available that I know of).

Chuck

Ash level is actually higher in that oil then in 5W30 ESP.
 
just a quick note on the M1 5/30 ESP

I used it in my 3.0 TDI(Audi engine) Volkswagen Phaeton and I didn't like it at all, even tough it's a highly regarded oil in Europe -> very noisy top end and a noisy cam chain on startup.

But that's maybe just my engine not liking the M1 5/30 ESP.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: chucky2
Sorry, have not really stayed up on the oil scene like I did in the past. What is the significance of ash level?

For diesels? Diesel particulate filter pollution. More ash more regeneration and shorter lifespan of DPF.
Both diesel and DI gasoline? Carbonization of intake and exhaust valves as well as intake manifold.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: chucky2
Sorry, have not really stayed up on the oil scene like I did in the past. What is the significance of ash level?

For diesels? Diesel particulate filter pollution. More ash more regeneration and shorter lifespan of DPF.
Both diesel and DI gasoline? Carbonization of intake and exhaust valves as well as intake manifold.


What about a non-DI gasoline engine though?
 
Originally Posted By: chucky2
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: chucky2
Sorry, have not really stayed up on the oil scene like I did in the past. What is the significance of ash level?

For diesels? Diesel particulate filter pollution. More ash more regeneration and shorter lifespan of DPF.
Both diesel and DI gasoline? Carbonization of intake and exhaust valves as well as intake manifold.


What about a non-DI gasoline engine though?

No any benefit except maybe less cat pollution. TBN in ESP will last longer in non-DI engine since there is much less dilution. However, except cat, no any benefit. non-DI I would always go with High-SAPS oil.
 
Apologize if someone has already posted but NAPA is having a national promotion. Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 or 5W-30 for $5.99 if you order online and pick up at the store.
 
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