Why are some experienced people so conceited?

[KJSmith]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
HAVAC techs are the worst.


Actually I had a fantastic one last fall when my blower motor went out. This guy took the time to explain everything, asked if I had any questions, and adjusted the airflow in my duct work without me asking. The system has never blown better throughout the house.


I think we are getting off track here... dealing with a customer is a different situation than dealing with a co-worker/apprentice.

 

[Duffyjr]

I think a lot of people that train new employees forget they were once in those same shoes.

I've been training new employees for about seven years and you have to have patience. You have to expect their going to ask the same question multiple times.

I enjoy teaching people what I've learned.

 

[punisher]

I tried never to be abusive to anyone at work, be it a fellow tech, a service writer, or an excessively chatty parts guy who doesn't understand what working on commission means.

For many it doesn't sink in that techs are paid (generally) on the amount of hours they turn. I would love to help out a newb with a difficult diagnosis, or maybe show him a shortcut that will help on a future job. Come winter time when I am playing cards or dominos between jobs, OK then. Just don't screw with me when I am busy. Not unusual to slide an experienced tech a few hours for an assist on a PITA that has someone stumped.

As far as new techs- we can usually figure out after a month or so who will make it and who won't. You either have the ability to diagnose, and fix, problems quickly, or you starve. Seen FoMoCo "ASSET" trained younglings come into the shop, last six months, and go into another profession. Conversely I have had a helper off the street work with me for nine months, get his ASEs, get some schooling from Ford, and do very well.

Old techs just get cranky I guess. Comes with the job.

 

[Shannow]

The ones that are worse arethe arrogant and conceited ones who have never been part of, or educated in the subject...they just "know"...can't argue with them, as they don't get even the most basic fundamentals.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
I guess conceit is human nature. True story. After bringing a 420 MW, coal fired, balanced draft B&W steam generator(boiler) back on the line, a planner/scheduler doing a follow up look-see called the unit shift supervisor to tell him operations had failed to place the bottom ash seal trough in service(no water) No way said the shift supervisor, unit won't run like that. Well it was running and the seal trough was bone dry and was making a great sucking sound that could be heard over all the other machinery in the vicinity. This was the same shift supervisor who one graveyard shift had his equipment operators get grease guns from the tool room and pump grease in any zerk they could find. Next morning, planner sees work request stating main plant coal conveyor back stop clutch had failed. It had actual burned itself up and was so overheated all the OEM paint was turned to ash. Some operations nose picker had pumped an ep grease into a unit that takes Lubriplate Aero and nothing else. Formsprag type overrunning clutches will self destruct if the wrong grease is used.Grease is grease and balanced draft steam generators won't run without the seal trough filled with water. This according to Milo.


Ahhh...power station guy.

Would love to have a beer and exchange stories...like the time that the production manager (at the time) directed a plant controller to keep a twin furnace ICAL boiler in service with a siezed secondary air heater on one side...then when the controls went buresque told him to drive it manual...then when he was losing pressure, directed him to ramp the mills up...then when pressure still didn't come up, realised that 20% airflow, and 35% fuel flow were incompatible, and got the operator to back the fuel out immediately (not trip)...597C steam in one leg, 490 the other, and burned the freckle out of the reheater.

Refused to admit presiding over a fuel/air crossover until I'd done 3 weeks of investigation to prove what happened, then tried to hang the operator for following his (flawed) directions.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Katmandu
Originally Posted By: SR5
One thing I learnt in the Army was, it's all about the team, not the person.

Amen brother ! Retired USAF NCO here.



Nice to meet you Katmandu

Army Sapper here.

All the best brother.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
I guess conceit is human nature. True story. After bringing a 420 MW, coal fired, balanced draft B&W steam generator(boiler) back on the line, a planner/scheduler doing a follow up look-see called the unit shift supervisor to tell him operations had failed to place the bottom ash seal trough in service(no water) No way said the shift supervisor, unit won't run like that. Well it was running and the seal trough was bone dry and was making a great sucking sound that could be heard over all the other machinery in the vicinity. This was the same shift supervisor who one graveyard shift had his equipment operators get grease guns from the tool room and pump grease in any zerk they could find. Next morning, planner sees work request stating main plant coal conveyor back stop clutch had failed. It had actual burned itself up and was so overheated all the OEM I've seen your post and knew that you were in power generation. Old hand maintenance suprepaint was turned to ash. Some operations nose picker had pumped an ep grease into a unit that takes Lubriplate Aero and nothing else. Formsprag type overrunning clutches will self destruct if the wrong grease is used.Grease is grease and balanced draft steam generators won't run without the seal trough filled with water. This according to Milo.


Ahhh...power station guy.

Would love to have a beer and exchange stories...like the time that the production manager (at the time) directed a plant controller to keep a twin furnace ICAL boiler in service with a siezed secondary air heater on one side...then when the controls went buresque told him to drive it manual...then when he was losing pressure, directed him to ramp the mills up...then when pressure still didn't come up, realised that 20% airflow, and 35% fuel flow were incompatible, and got the operator to back the fuel out immediately (not trip)...597C steam in one leg, 490 the other, and burned the freckle out of the reheater.

Refused to admit presiding over a fuel/air crossover until I'd done 3 weeks of investigation to prove what happened, then tried to hang the operator for following his (flawed) directions.
.Our main problem from day one was management trying to operate a 1260 MW station(REA) with a 100 MW mentality and too, too much inbreeding that dated back to the nineteen fifties. No one was held accountable for anything. Only bankruptcy and new company brought needed changes.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
People complained I was slow, well you have me taking apart a 20 year old rusted out pump with a 9/16" open end/box end wrench that I have to hit with a hammer to break all the bolts loose and prey they don't round off. Why not let me spray it down with some pb blaster, do something else and come back in 30 minutes and buzz them off with the impact wrench? Nope..... Main reason why I work for myself now.


My old man was stubborn, condescending and "always right", even when he was clearly wrong. He was also corrupt. I only found out about the later after he died and I was left to clean up the financial mess.

He had me painting three houses one Summer with a 4" wide brush, despite the fact he had bought a brand-new gas powered air compressor. Neither were paint rollers allowed. His rationale? "Because I said so".

To further add insult to injury, he wouldn't even give me the money I earned! I had to ask him for it. How screwed up is that. When I complained about only getting $1.65/hr, his reply was "You can either do it for that, or free."

He was a successful businessman, but he was no "father". He was a condescending, arrogant_ass. His second wife was a gold-digger. He was too stupid to see it. Yet it was all-too-clear to me as a 9 yr. old. He said "there is no way a 9 yr. old could know such a thing." He was wrong. Every kid knows that some adults "give them the creeps." She did.

"Pride goeth before the fall..." Indeed.

I go into such detail to explain why I also have worked for myself for most of my life as well. You're not alone. I learned to compensate by dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's. I also learned how to stand up to such bullheads and tell them NO! Rather difficult for the quiet, shy, introverted type. But it sure is a LIFT when you learn to turn their own guns around and fire back.

I had some interesting experiences with his friends in later years, after his death and when I'd learned the above. Turns out he'd suckered some of them as well as lying to them. I told one of them. I had all the facts lined up and carefully laid them out. Should have seen the look on his face....and his wifes. She never appreciated the fact that God gave her two ears but one mouth and she should use them accordingly. This particular old man died broke, leaving his wife to deal with it. He was rather resentful that "that stupid kid" graduated as an Electrical Engineer and earned money he could only dream about. And doing it being self-employed. Imagine that! I didn't allow them to push me around anymore nor get away with it. They made their own nest, I reminded them of it.

Life is indeed too short to suffer such bullheads, much less gladly.

Cheers to you for knowing your time & progress was being wasted and acting on your own thinking. Never allow any of these bullheads to do your thinking for you, much less 'serve' them. Peace of Mind might have a price, but life is indeed short and the price worth it in the long run.

 

[javacontour]

I guess I have to ask it the other way around. Why do people call on experienced professionals and then don't take their recommendations?

I recall a weekend long service call where I explained to the customer that it wasn't a hardware issue, it was some sort of configuration issue. We had already been onsite for close to 10 hours and asked for information that he wasn't giving me and other such uncooperative exchanges. I threw up my hands and said call in the backline engineer and have them look at it, we've done all we can do with the info you are willing to give me.

Not even 12 hours later we are paged to replace the motherboard. Apparently, the customer insisted hardware was bad. But he had sent the backline engineer the information I wanted. I ordered a motherboard and said we would be onsite at noon. Both me and the real on-call engineer who I was mentoring hadn't had much sleep and I wanted some time to look at the info.

Upon looking at the information, there was a mis-configuration of the network interfaces. It only took me another 6 hours to convince the customer to read the bug I found and how their configuration leads to this problem, and how to avoid it.

So two field engineers and close to 30 man hours that could have been cut to under 6 hadnthe customer cooperated, provided the configuration info requested and implemented my recommendation in a timely fashion.

One begins to wonder why you call us in if you are not willing to follow the advice of someone with 30 years of experience in the field.

 

[cjcride]

Sled, that post is worthy of BITOG's Top Ten.

Wow

 

[AuthorEditor]

Quote:
I guess I have to ask it the other way around. Why do people call on experienced professionals and then don't take their recommendations?

One reason is that some people rely on social media for their advice. Look at the popularity of things like Yelp--give me a professional restaurant reviewer any day! Star ratings on Amazon are just as bad. Forums can be really hit or miss, as can be seen here in most threads, but at least you can read opposing viewpoints, maybe get ideas for where to do further research, etc. I do find it interesting that some people will stick to an idea no matter what evidence is presented to the contrary, and then they often resort to personal attacks when you disagree with them.

 

[Mr Nice]

Sometimes I will train some of our interns and I always 'dumb down' the learning process as to not make the learning curve too difficult.

Hands on approach is the best and I explain why the problem is happening and the easiest ways to troubleshoot the equipment.

 

[RooflessVW]

When I get new people I expect them to know the basics. Teaching basics and fundamentals is not my job, nor is it my job to help a failing employee that lied on his resume to get his foot in the door, only to rely on other's experience once the job was secured.

RTFM, and sink or swim.

Edit: You're also not borrowing my tools more than once. The second time you need them and you still haven't bought them for yourself, time to pound sand.

 

[Stelth]

Quote:
Why are some experienced people so conceited?


It seems to be human nature to want to feel superior. Smug counter guys, condescending mechanics, pedantic bosses, whatever the case may be.

I'm currently a foreman for a good-sized mechanical company. I work on the plumbing side. I was recently asked by a plumber what is the deal with de-ionized water, since we are running a DI system in a biotech lab. I could see he was really interested, so I gave him a brief rundown on ion-exchange resins and explained how a water softener works compared to deionization. I explained why the DI piping is run in a loop and continuously circulated. I probably took fifteen minutes to just hit the rudimentary stuff. I don't think it was a waste of time.

On the other hand, I had an argument with a young guy with a year or two of experience about what fitting to use for a particular application. I couldn't get him to understand why I wanted a particular fitting used, so I finally said, "Hey, just humor me on this." He will eventually see how it works when the system is complete, and there's no point arguing when he doesn't understand the argument.

After decades in the trade, I don't know it all, but I do know quite a bit. If I don't know something, I find someone who does. At the same time, I try to help guys who need help. I can, occasionally, get a little testy or sarcastic with some knucklehead who asks the same question over and over, and doesn't really pay attention to the answer.

 

[Turbo_Lemming]

Originally Posted By: Stelth
Quote:
Why are some experienced people so conceited?


It seems to be human nature to want to feel superior. Smug counter guys, condescending mechanics, pedantic bosses, whatever the case may be.

I'm currently a foreman for a good-sized mechanical company. I work on the plumbing side. I was recently asked by a plumber what is the deal with de-ionized water, since we are running a DI system in a biotech lab. I could see he was really interested, so I gave him a brief rundown on ion-exchange resins and explained how a water softener works compared to deionization. I explained why the DI piping is run in a loop and continuously circulated. I probably took fifteen minutes to just hit the rudimentary stuff. I don't think it was a waste of time.

On the other hand, I had an argument with a young guy with a year or two of experience about what fitting to use for a particular application. I couldn't get him to understand why I wanted a particular fitting used, so I finally said, "Hey, just humor me on this." He will eventually see how it works when the system is complete, and there's no point arguing when he doesn't understand the argument.

After decades in the trade, I don't know it all, but I do know quite a bit. If I don't know something, I find someone who does. At the same time, I try to help guys who need help. I can, occasionally, get a little testy or sarcastic with some knucklehead who asks the same question over and over, and doesn't really pay attention to the answer.


I am really happy that you took the time and effort to explain the topic to that man. He seemed to have a genuine interest, and will likely remember what you said for the rest of his life. Much respect.

I explained to a social worker recently helping me out how a head on a super overheated engine, such as temperature gauge pegged to hot etc, engine can crack if you add any regular temperature water to it immediately after shut down by using the example of the super thick glass ceramic coffee mug she had, and how if the coffee or liquid is too hot it will crack the cup.. And she nodded in agreement, as I saw the hairline crack on her cup. I also used as an example why you don't throw cold water on the face of an oven range for the same reason. I talked for probably a full minute about how an engine can be destroyed, if run without coolant and not shut down in time. She seemed to have learned something. She knows I have a passion on the topic.

 

[Kestas]

I've also seen conceit drive professionals to talk beyond what they know. Instead of saying they've reached the limit of their knowledge, they'll go on further to talk nonsense about a subject. I experienced this as a junior engineer from some mentors, who didn't realize I was a bit smarter than they thought.

Now that I'm in a mentor position, I make sure to separate fact from opinion, and to let my colleagues know that. This has earned me respect in my field.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: cjcride
Sled, that post is worthy of BITOG's Top Ten.

Wow

Thanks. Sometimes I amaze even myself when I sit down to type, what comes out of the fingers. From deep within to on the screen. No doubt the OP touched a deep nerve.

Small wonder I don't like being condescended to? Nor arrogant, authoritarian types? I've learned such behavior often masks a deep insecurity, poor character, and hypocrisy. Bluffing may work in cards, but in life sooner or later your hand will be called one way or the other. You better be able to stand and deliver or else.....

I'll add that I've developed the skill to explain complex concepts to people and don't mind doing so as I like to educate. Of course, some will never get it, but most do and generally want to learn.

I applaud the OP for removing himself from such a negative situation and wish him well. I'd also encourage him to learn: Wide & deep. It's easier today than ever before. Just takes initiative to do it.

Knowledge is power. Therefore, power up! Life is hard enough as it is. It's even harder when your stupid. So don't be stupid.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
When I get new people I expect them to know the basics. Teaching basics and fundamentals is not my job, nor is it my job to help a failing employee that lied on his resume to get his foot in the door, only to rely on other's experience once the job was secured.

RTFM, and sink or swim.

Edit: You're also not borrowing my tools more than once. The second time you need them and you still haven't bought them for yourself, time to pound sand.
+1

 

[Turbo_Lemming]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
People complained I was slow, well you have me taking apart a 20 year old rusted out pump with a 9/16" open end/box end wrench that I have to hit with a hammer to break all the bolts loose and prey they don't round off. Why not let me spray it down with some pb blaster, do something else and come back in 30 minutes and buzz them off with the impact wrench? Nope..... Main reason why I work for myself now.


My old man was stubborn, condescending and "always right", even when he was clearly wrong. He was also corrupt. I only found out about the later after he died and I was left to clean up the financial mess.

He had me painting three houses one Summer with a 4" wide brush, despite the fact he had bought a brand-new gas powered air compressor. Neither were paint rollers allowed. His rationale? "Because I said so".

To further add insult to injury, he wouldn't even give me the money I earned! I had to ask him for it. How screwed up is that. When I complained about only getting $1.65/hr, his reply was "You can either do it for that, or free."

He was a successful businessman, but he was no "father". He was a condescending, arrogant_ass. His second wife was a gold-digger. He was too stupid to see it. Yet it was all-too-clear to me as a 9 yr. old. He said "there is no way a 9 yr. old could know such a thing." He was wrong. Every kid knows that some adults "give them the creeps." She did.

"Pride goeth before the fall..." Indeed.

I go into such detail to explain why I also have worked for myself for most of my life as well. You're not alone. I learned to compensate by dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's. I also learned how to stand up to such bullheads and tell them NO! Rather difficult for the quiet, shy, introverted type. But it sure is a LIFT when you learn to turn their own guns around and fire back.

I had some interesting experiences with his friends in later years, after his death and when I'd learned the above. Turns out he'd suckered some of them as well as lying to them. I told one of them. I had all the facts lined up and carefully laid them out. Should have seen the look on his face....and his wifes. She never appreciated the fact that God gave her two ears but one mouth and she should use them accordingly. This particular old man died broke, leaving his wife to deal with it. He was rather resentful that "that stupid kid" graduated as an Electrical Engineer and earned money he could only dream about. And doing it being self-employed. Imagine that! I didn't allow them to push me around anymore nor get away with it. They made their own nest, I reminded them of it.

Life is indeed too short to suffer such bullheads, much less gladly.

Cheers to you for knowing your time & progress was being wasted and acting on your own thinking. Never allow any of these bullheads to do your thinking for you, much less 'serve' them. Peace of Mind might have a price, but life is indeed short and the price worth it in the long run.

That's high in the BITOG Top Ten, for certain!

 

[javacontour]

When I trained instructors, I told them their greatest tool and asset was credibility. If you don't know something, don't make up an answer. Write it on the board and go research it on a break or in the evening and provide the answer.

If you make up stuff and you are caught on it by your students, you'll lose them.

I had to let one instructor go because that was his M.O. he ultimately started making up course evaluations from his students and that got him fired.

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I've also seen conceit drive professionals to talk beyond what they know. Instead of saying they've reached the limit of their knowledge, they'll go on further to talk nonsense about a subject. I experienced this as a junior engineer from some mentors, who didn't realize I was a bit smarter than they thought.

Now that I'm in a mentor position, I make sure to separate fact from opinion, and to let my colleagues know that. This has earned me respect in my field.