Gates vs. Bando - Tensioner Position (Pics)

[The Critic]

About 8,500 miles ago, I installed a Gates K070701 serpentine drive belt onto a 2007 Honda Accord with the 2.4L engine. After installing this belt, I noticed the vehicle's auto tensioner indicator arrow would point a few notches to the right of the center point.

Gates K070701 - after 8500 miles by The Critic, on Flickr

(In comparison, on the OE Honda belt with 102k miles, the indicator arrow would read in the center between the two squares.)

So, I finally decided to do some research and discovered the following info.

Gates K070701 = 70.7" or 1796mm.
Bando 7PK1781 or Honda 38920-RAA-A03 = 70.1" or 1781mm.

Apparently, the Gates belt has an outside circumference that was 0.6" "longer" than the Genuine Honda or the OES Bando belt.

In the interest of repairing vehicles correctly, I purchased a Bando 7PK1781 belt and installed it onto the vehicle. This is how the automatic tensioner arrow looked after idling the engine for 5 minutes after the belt installation.

Bando 7PK1781 - after 5 min of idling. by The Critic, on Flickr

Just to be sure, I took the vehicle for a 20 mile test drive (another 45 minutes of run-time) to allow for the belt to "break in" and stretch. Here's what I found:

Bando 7PK1781 - after 20 miles (and 45 min of runtime) by The Critic, on Flickr

Only a very slight change - the arrow moved a little bit to the right.

In summary, installing the Bando belt (which is the correct length) resolved my concern about the auto tensioner's reading. The tensioner's reading was being affected by the Gates belt, which was longer (but still within tolerance) than the OE belt. Furthermore, this vehicle had an issue with having a bit more vibration at idle than expected (only when the A/C is running) despite having all new OE mounts, and installing the correct length belt appears to have resolved this issue too.

Going forward, I will only be using belts that match the length of the OE belt. I am finding that for many applications, Gates belts are longer than the factory belt -- and this is problematic for certain types of automatic belt tensioners.

 

[dlundblad]

If you had it to do over again, would you just go with OEM?

 

[WobblyElvis]

I would have just left the first belt on.
You had it easy. Some vendors sell belts for GM 4 cylinder ecotecs that are too small. A waste of time trying to get them on!

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I would have just left the first belt on.
...



My thought also - IF there was enough travel remaining in the tensioners there was no reason to remove it.

 

[doitmyself]

After stretching, the Gates K070694 might put the tensioner mark dead on center. It starts out 3mm shorter than the OEM. The tensioner springs must weaken with use, so a very slightly shorter belt might be better on an older vehicle?

The Gates K070701 crosses to Dayco 5070700, which is 70.1 inches long, same as the OEM.
http://www.daycoproducts.com/parts?oe_number=+K070701

I wonder if Gates tend to be longer on all applications. I also wonder how much stretching will occur after several hundred miles.

 

[Chris142]

Splitting hair on this one.

 

[zzyzzx]

You have to check the belt length on any new serpentine belt that you buy, just to make sure it's right. For some reason, the manufacturer's like to screw with you like that.

 

[Trav]

I have been using Bando for years and never had any complaints with them, they are a high quality belt. They have a very accurate fit, quiet and long life.

 

[JHZR2]

I wonder how many unique part numbers Gates got away with NOT making by saying that one fits them all...

Question really is if the accessories will work better with the Bando belt, or if the tensioner will last longer due to being in its optimum range...

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I wonder how many unique part numbers Gates got away with NOT making by saying that one fits them all...



BINGO! Gates has been through a number of buyouts by equity companies and have gotten rid of most of the original OEM management on the Automotive side. The current management team isn't allowed to spend a nickel on anything...so I am sure this is the case.

For this reason I have taken Gates products completely off my list. What was once the Gates family run business for 80 years is now a skeleton corporate cash cow run by accountants.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I wonder how many unique part numbers Gates got away with NOT making by saying that one fits them all...

Question really is if the accessories will work better with the Bando belt, or if the tensioner will last longer due to being in its optimum range...


If the belt is too small the tensioner will place additional load on everything including the belt causing faster wear, if its too long the tensioner will soon go out of its effective range needed to prevent belt slippage.

The marks on the tensioner are there for a reason, the main mark is for a new belt, as the belt wears and stretches with age the tensioner marks will move, when it reaches the other mark its finished.

My own observations on different aftermarket belts over the years. Many companies like Gates and Dayco make OE belts but these are usually not available in aftermarket packaging.
Conti (Euro car only) and Bando are the same as far as I can tell going by part# and other info found on the belt.

OE Usually the best fit, longest lasting and quietest.

Gates. Tend to run slightly larger than OE but are high quality, most of the time its not an issue, they are quiet.

Dayco. Tend to run slightly smaller, good quality, run quiet. Sometimes it can be difficut to install some of them.

Goodyear. Accurate sizing but the noisiest of the aftermarket belts, they tend to whine. A good belt if you don't mind belt noise, some are extremely loud.

Delco. Very accurate sizing, long lasting and quiet, these are the least resistant to permanent squealing if contaminated with common automotive fluids and cleaning supplies.

Bando. Very accurate sizing, long lasting, quiet, no issues. Common OE belt.

Continental. Usually very accurate fit, quiet and long lasting. OE on many German cars, there seems to be issues when it comes to US and Japanese cars, they don't seem to fit as well.
I have a feeling that in some markets they are produced by a third party for Conti.

Mitsuboshi. Very accurate sizing, quiet, long lasting another common OE belt.

House brands. Usually second string major manufacturer, lower quality, not an accurate fit, they tend to be harder which causes noise and slippage after a short time.

No names. Often found on ebay and online parts houses, these are worst of the bunch, the quality and fit is all over the place. I have seen these shred in as little as 200 miles.

There are many other brands like Bosch, Mann, Optibelt, Lemforder, etc, Some are repackaged brands others are produced in their home countries for that market and are high quality or even OE but could also be Chinese for the US market.
Before someone post something like "hey my Goodyear is the quietest belt ever" these are just my personal observations, there will always be exceptions.

 

[EdwardC]

Just wondering, how many miles did you have on the original belt? My 07 element with the K24 is about to hit 100k and I previously purchased a Bando belt, but haven't installed it yet.

Did you original belt have any wear/fraying/squealing?

Thanks for the post, glad to hear that Bando seems to have a decent reputation as the OES.

 

[nthach]

I've used Bando and Gates recently - pricing on Amazon(and locally for Gates) seems to be good. I used to use Goodyear, but it was too tight for a particular application.

 

[Mr Nice]

I would of kept using the OEM belt.

 

[sxg6]

Interesting to hear some of the comments about gates, I didn't know some of this stuff.

At some point within the last 6 months or so, Gates switched from the tried and true NTN stamped timing belt tensioner for Subaru's, to their own gates labeled tensioner.

Well, apparently the new tensioners suck. There are numerous reports of the tensioners not holding tension and knocking right out of the box, or failing not long down the road. In an email, gates claims to be switching back to the old tensioners, but we'll see.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I would have just left the first belt on.
You had it easy. Some vendors sell belts for GM 4 cylinder ecotecs that are too small. A waste of time trying to get them on!

Also, some specified belts are too long to properly fit a Toyota 2AZ-FE... Either that, or it was because many of them had terrible belt tensioners.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I wonder how many unique part numbers Gates got away with NOT making by saying that one fits them all...

Question really is if the accessories will work better with the Bando belt, or if the tensioner will last longer due to being in its optimum range...


If the belt is too small the tensioner will place additional load on everything including the belt causing faster wear, if its too long the tensioner will soon go out of its effective range needed to prevent belt slippage.

The marks on the tensioner are there for a reason, the main mark is for a new belt, as the belt wears and stretches with age the tensioner marks will move, when it reaches the other mark its finished.

My own observations on different aftermarket belts over the years. Many companies like Gates and Dayco make OE belts but these are usually not available in aftermarket packaging.
Conti (Euro car only) and Bando are the same as far as I can tell going by part# and other info found on the belt.

OE Usually the best fit, longest lasting and quietest.

Gates. Tend to run slightly larger than OE but are high quality, most of the time its not an issue, they are quiet.

Dayco. Tend to run slightly smaller, good quality, run quiet. Sometimes it can be difficut to install some of them.

Goodyear. Accurate sizing but the noisiest of the aftermarket belts, they tend to whine. A good belt if you don't mind belt noise, some are extremely loud.

Delco. Very accurate sizing, long lasting and quiet, these are the least resistant to permanent squealing if contaminated with common automotive fluids and cleaning supplies.

Bando. Very accurate sizing, long lasting, quiet, no issues. Common OE belt.

Continental. Usually very accurate fit, quiet and long lasting. OE on many German cars, there seems to be issues when it comes to US and Japanese cars, they don't seem to fit as well.
I have a feeling that in some markets they are produced by a third party for Conti.

Mitsuboshi. Very accurate sizing, quiet, long lasting another common OE belt.

House brands. Usually second string major manufacturer, lower quality, not an accurate fit, they tend to be harder which causes noise and slippage after a short time.

No names. Often found on ebay and online parts houses, these are worst of the bunch, the quality and fit is all over the place. I have seen these shred in as little as 200 miles.

There are many other brands like Bosch, Mann, Optibelt, Lemforder, etc, Some are repackaged brands others are produced in their home countries for that market and are high quality or even OE but could also be Chinese for the US market.
Before someone post something like "hey my Goodyear is the quietest belt ever" these are just my personal observations, there will always be exceptions.



Thanks for the excellent summary!

Originally Posted By: EdwardC
Just wondering, how many miles did you have on the original belt? My 07 element with the K24 is about to hit 100k and I previously purchased a Bando belt, but haven't installed it yet.

Did you original belt have any wear/fraying/squealing?

Thanks for the post, glad to hear that Bando seems to have a decent reputation as the OES.


The original belts last a long time. I have seen many of them with over 150k, sometimes even 200k! 100k is a very conservative interval for the OE Honda belts.

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I would of kept using the OEM belt.

They require periodic replacement, too.