http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/07/f17/ft020_gangopadhyay_2014_o.pdf
Slide 16... again, new lubes hampered by J300.
Slide 16... again, new lubes hampered by J300.
PAG based lubricants ... wear and economy.
- Thread starter Shannow
- Start date
- Status
Yeah that is EXACTLY right. The new oils 100°C cst being well less than 6.9. But their HTHS were both quite good at 2.4 and 2.8. Plus the reduction of friction in their testing was fantastic. Really should go by HTHS ratings and not 100°C csT results.
The benefits of PAG oils over GF
-5 SAE 5W-20 oil
–
Summary.
Up to 48% friction reduction in motored valvetrain tests
8-49% friction reduction in motored single cylinder piston ring tests.
3-14% friction reduction in motored engine tests.
Selected formulation (17-1) showed significant enhancement (32%) in load carrying capability.
-5 SAE 5W-20 oil
–
Summary.
Up to 48% friction reduction in motored valvetrain tests
8-49% friction reduction in motored single cylinder piston ring tests.
3-14% friction reduction in motored engine tests.
Selected formulation (17-1) showed significant enhancement (32%) in load carrying capability.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29262/synthetic-engine-oils
Part of above:
Along with benefits, there are also drawbacks for any synthetic. These types of synthetics have the dubious reputation of not being miscible with mineral oils. PAG and standard mineral oils do not mix well and form an almost snot-like substance when they come in contact with each other. Not only can they not mix with mineral oils, but certain polymers and paints are also incompatible with these fluids. PAGs can cause the shrinking or swelling of some seal materials, which can lead to leaks and/or allow contamination into the system.
You will get a tad more friction if a non PAG is used for a top up, or is not flushed out prior to changing over, so I think I will stick to group 3 plus (GTL) or group 4 engine oils (Ultra and Synthoil).
Part of above:
Along with benefits, there are also drawbacks for any synthetic. These types of synthetics have the dubious reputation of not being miscible with mineral oils. PAG and standard mineral oils do not mix well and form an almost snot-like substance when they come in contact with each other. Not only can they not mix with mineral oils, but certain polymers and paints are also incompatible with these fluids. PAGs can cause the shrinking or swelling of some seal materials, which can lead to leaks and/or allow contamination into the system.
You will get a tad more friction if a non PAG is used for a top up, or is not flushed out prior to changing over, so I think I will stick to group 3 plus (GTL) or group 4 engine oils (Ultra and Synthoil).
Last edited:
Which is, of course where some of the "witches brew" theories about synthetic causing leaks is actually proven correct
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29262/synthetic-engine-oils
Part of above:
Along with benefits, there are also drawbacks for any synthetic. These types of synthetics have the dubious reputation of not being miscible with mineral oils. PAG and standard mineral oils do not mix well and form an almost snot-like substance when they come in contact with each other. Not only can they not mix with mineral oils, but certain polymers and paints are also incompatible with these fluids. PAGs can cause the shrinking or swelling of some seal materials, which can lead to leaks and/or allow contamination into the system.
You will get a tad more friction if a non PAG is used for a top up, or is not flushed out prior to changing over, so I think I will stick to group 3 plus (GTL) or group 4 engine oils (Ultra and Synthoil).
This is why you use Oil Soluble PAG's as a co-base in a balanced formulation and not by themselves.
It is only the high viscosity PAGs that are not very miscible.
However, When compounded at an elevated temperature along with other solving bases, PAGs are miscible.
Example: I have a successful Wind Turbine transmission lubricant that uses PAGs.
Lower friction of PAG formulations is not due to lower viscosity but chemistry of base oil (different from GF-5 SAE 5W-20 oil)
Which is what I have been saying for some time. We can formulate low viscosity fluids with low friction and wear with the correct additive technology and base fluids.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29262/synthetic-engine-oils
Part of above:
Along with benefits, there are also drawbacks for any synthetic. These types of synthetics have the dubious reputation of not being miscible with mineral oils. PAG and standard mineral oils do not mix well and form an almost snot-like substance when they come in contact with each other. Not only can they not mix with mineral oils, but certain polymers and paints are also incompatible with these fluids. PAGs can cause the shrinking or swelling of some seal materials, which can lead to leaks and/or allow contamination into the system.
You will get a tad more friction if a non PAG is used for a top up, or is not flushed out prior to changing over, so I think I will stick to group 3 plus (GTL) or group 4 engine oils (Ultra and Synthoil).
This is why you use Oil Soluble PAG's as a co-base in a balanced formulation and not by themselves.
It is only the high viscosity PAGs that are not very miscible.
However, When compounded at an elevated temperature along with other solving bases, PAGs are miscible.
Example: I have a successful Wind Turbine transmission lubricant that uses PAGs.
Lower friction of PAG formulations is not due to lower viscosity but chemistry of base oil (different from GF-5 SAE 5W-20 oil)
Which is what I have been saying for some time. We can formulate low viscosity fluids with low friction and wear with the correct additive technology and base fluids.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Yeah that is EXACTLY right. The new oils 100°C cst being well less than 6.9. But their HTHS were both quite good at 2.4 and 2.8. Plus the reduction of friction in their testing was fantastic. Really should go by HTHS ratings and not 100°C csT results.
Get the HTHS up into the 4.0 range, and I would give it a try in my Ferrari on a race track.
Yeah that is EXACTLY right. The new oils 100°C cst being well less than 6.9. But their HTHS were both quite good at 2.4 and 2.8. Plus the reduction of friction in their testing was fantastic. Really should go by HTHS ratings and not 100°C csT results.
Get the HTHS up into the 4.0 range, and I would give it a try in my Ferrari on a race track.
- Status
Similar threads
