2017 F-150 3.5 twin turbo V6

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Of all the spec's on the new engine there is one interesting turn. This fuel system has both direct and port injection and at times they are mapped to sometimes run on their own, independent of the other.

Is this the configuration that finally allows the benefits of direct injection?
 
Allows the positives of direct injection while minimizing the negatives.

I also noticed that the engine does away with bucket valve lifters and is now using a finger follower valvetrain.
 
In the other thread I wondered if it was for one of two reasons:
-to get that much fuel in when at full tilt
-to allow better metering. At idle an injector that can flow (400hp? divide whatever it is by six) well that much fuel is probably running at a very small duty cycle.
 
Something like this is also used in the Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS. Believe that I read that Toyota has the patent, but they might be allowing others to use it royalty-free at this point.
I was excited to learn that the 2.0l NA in the BRZ had this because I thought it meant the 2.0l turbo in my FXT would, also, but no such luck.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Allows the positives of direct injection while minimizing the negatives.

I also noticed that the engine does away with bucket valve lifters and is now using a finger follower valvetrain.


That is awesome. Ford's bucket system leaves a lot to be desired. The shims are part of the bucket lifters. So like on a 2015 F150 with the 3.5 GTDI there are 50 different part numbers for lifters based on the measurement.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Is there even a benefit to bucket lifters? Seems that they (Ford) flip-flops on that a lot.
They work great of super high rpm operation and if the quality is there they [rarely] need adjustment,which is good because it is labor intensive. I hate the shim adjusters more than I hate overhead cam engines.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Is there even a benefit to bucket lifters? Seems that they (Ford) flip-flops on that a lot.


They are the lightest and stiffest of valvetrains.
But they are limited in peak valve velocities due to the fixed diameter of the bucket. There are very few bucket lifter valvetrains still in production; almost everything else is roller finger follower. Ford probably gets a good fuel economy improvement in their application by reducing friction.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Is there even a benefit to bucket lifters? Seems that they (Ford) flip-flops on that a lot.



It all depends on where the designer really wants to spend resources and expense. With a little effort, you can design and build a roller-follower valvetrain that is stable to stupid-high RPM. You can even make pushrods and rockers stable and reliable (at least for race weekend durations) above 10,000 RPM. But buckets are a dirt-cheap way to achieve high-RPM stability at the expense of serviceability, durability, higher friction losses, and engine height (a finger-follower overhead is shorter). But most off-the-shelf passenger car/truck engines NEVER see RPM levels where any valvetrain configuration has a truly inherent advantage over another in performance, so it often comes down to packaging. Which is why so many pushrod engines, even high-performing ones like the Hellcat and Z/06, are still being made.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Is there any end in sight to the March towards suffocating complexity in passenger vehicles.



No, because the consumer (you know, the ones who actually buy new cars) love this stuff.

Do you really believe that a "simple non-complex" gas powered truck could tow 10k+lb and get 20+mpg?
 
Ever changing emission laws will guarantee more complicated vehicles in the future.

Someday soon it may become illegal to open your hood.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Someday soon it may become illegal to open your hood.


With certain occasional members of the forum, that might be a good thing.
It would prevent the certain death of yet more cars.

BC.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Is there any end in sight to the March towards suffocating complexity in passenger vehicles.



To be absolutely honest, I have been quite surprised at how comparatively SIMPLE the Ford Ecoboost installations are. At least in a mechanical sense. They are well-designed, but somewhat spartan turbo systems where much of the safeguarding that allows them to work is in software, where it doesn't corrode, wear, and deteriorate. A vast difference from the nest-of-snakes pile of cooling lines, vacuum hoses, calibrated orifices, diaphragms-and-springs, and all sorts of other fragile stuff that was required to keep an 80s-vintage turbo engine happy and safe.

The dual fuel system IS an example of a bit of added complexity to be sure. But if the benefits are there (not just the cleaner intake, but better low-temp fuel vaporization with port injection), then why not? Its not like the port injection fuel rails and injectors are high-tech or prone to frequent failure anymore, and the DI injectors are coming down in complexity and mystery all the time too. By comparison, in the 60s people tolerated dual-point ignitions that had to be re-tweaked every 10,000 miles, multiple carb setups that had to be synchronized just about as often, the Europeans tolerated Bosch mechanical fuel injection systems that were very finicky, and so on. Complexity has ALWAYS been the cost for performance, its just that now a lot of the complexity looks like voodoo from the outside because it isn't something you can put your hand on. But that's also a vast improvement, IMO.
 
" Shim under bucket" - Those 3 words send shivers down owners spines at the thought of ANY valve train maintenance.

Only a desmodromic is more painful.

Ive had the pleasure of towing with nearly every half ton on the market and where I tow (the Ford test hill - Davis Dam) and the 10 from LA to Parker/Havasu AZ the heat and altitude absolutely castrate all of the V8 naturally aspirated half tons.

The EB tows at min 1-to sometime 3 gears higher, pulls from further down low, hold gears better and runs quieter under every hill scenario comparatively than all the V8 rigs.

While NA trucks run high RPM 2 gears lower roaring away on the big climbs good luck making or taking a phone call -

The eco is so quiet you can take a call from the truck and pretend you are still in the office while sneaking out to the river/ lake on the weekend.

Its not about the number of cylinders you have (ask a trucker with an inline 6) - its about the amount of air and fuel you can move through what you have, and the those little hairdryers do a [censored] of a job.

UD
 
I find it interesting that auto makers go back and forth as well.
The Mitsubishi EVO VII, VIII, and IX had hydraulic lash adjusters and roller cam followers. When the Evo X came out, it had solid cam buckets, and required the installation of new cam buckets to adjust valve lash.

Meanwhile, Subaru was redesigning the base WRX, which had cam buckets, then they created a new engine that used roller cam followers and hydraulic lash adjusters.

There is one thing I like about solid cam buckets VS hydraulic lash adjusters. After doing an oil change to an engine with hydraulic lash adjusters, many engines make scary noises until the oil reaches the hydraulic lash adjusters.
 
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