New Mobil 1 FS 0w-40

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Porsche C30 and VW 504.00/507.00 are same specs. Porsche just uses same VW engines.
Those specs. are very tough on SAPS level (DPF protection). I would say not any tougher on wear then MB 229.51.


I'm aware that C30 is the same as 504/507, however, for a C30 to be at the same wear-level as a 229.51 oil, some sort of chemical engineering had to take place of the reduced SAPS. All in all, I think it just shows GTL as a very promising future for base oil development.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Porsche C30 and VW 504.00/507.00 are same specs. Porsche just uses same VW engines.
Those specs. are very tough on SAPS level (DPF protection). I would say not any tougher on wear then MB 229.51.


I'm aware that C30 is the same as 504/507, however, for a C30 to be at the same wear-level as a 229.51 oil, some sort of chemical engineering had to take place of the reduced SAPS. All in all, I think it just shows GTL as a very promising future for base oil development.

Yeah, but Mobil1 5W30 ESP meets C30 and it is HC oil (mix of various bases, but majority HC) and you have many other HC oils that meet C30 or VW 504.00/507.00.
It proves that it is what you cook in lab not so much just the base.
Where I find GTL really good is NOACK.

 

[bobbydavro]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: deven
^^Agreed. No way M1 meets the N20 spec with 0% PAO. They'll need at the least 30% PAO in my opinion to meet that spec. When and if they do meet it then it'd be interesting to see what the MSDS says.

Pennzoil meets LL-01 with 0% PAO.


They also have an oil that meets Porsche C30 with zero PAO. Impressive. That's a tough test from what I can tell.

Porsche C30 and VW 504.00/507.00 are same specs. Porsche just uses same VW engines.
Those specs. are very tough on SAPS level (DPF protection). I would say not any tougher on wear then MB 229.51.


The 504 507 spec has the most demanding wear test of the industry, it also then has a further suite of testing ran at VW looking at wear and deposits

MB229.51 is basically ACEA levels of OM646LA wear plus a MB271 wear test which is relatively easy. Infact it is probably the easiest german OEM spec

 

[edyvw]

Good to know. I like all those specs to have on oil anyway, so...

 

[buster]

I would almost guarantee it has everything to do with timing/reformulation. M1 0w40 is a very robust oil that is tough to beat. And Mobil is very good about not claiming specs they haven't officially been tested against.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Why would they release it without the spec?

People on BMW forums are already raging.


Why not? It's not as if it's the only spec on the bottle. What, you want them to discontinue sales sales completely until such time it carries the spec again, assuming it ever does? They sold M1 post-Katrina without the starburst and that affected a lot more drivers than the loss of LL-01.

Raging people on BMW forums is silly. Go buy the Castrol 0W-40 like everyone else and grow up.

You can buy many oils that meet LL-01. That is not point of this discussion.
Mobil1 0W40 for a long time was standard in this segment. When standard in the segment does not carry BMW certification, it is a problem. Why it is not carrying? Mobil1 feels sorry for rest of oil industry so letting them take that piece of market?
Company like Mobil1 does not have to wait for certification, they negotiate with BMW to do testing before oil hits the shelfs and that is it.
From all the conversation, M1 FS cannot meet current LL-01. Castrol can, Shell/Pennzoil can, Pentosin can, Liqui Moly can, Ravenol can, Motul can, etc. Argument how "it carries other specs." is ridiculous. It carries all other that are not applicable to BMW. Mobil1 today does not have oil on the U.S. market that carries BMW LL-01 spec. SPec. of manufacturer that is constantly number 1 or number 2 luxury brand in the U.S.


Yeah, if it's a timing issue, why do all the other companies still carry the spec?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: buster
I would almost guarantee it has everything to do with timing/reformulation. M1 0w40 is a very robust oil that is tough to beat. And Mobil is very good about not claiming specs they haven't officially been tested against.


Doesn't appear to be a timing issue.

From Mobil: "...At the same time, BMW had modified the testing requirement for the LL-01 spec – adding of a more severe N20 2liter turbo test that, apparently, we do not yet meet."

Taken from this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4068945

 

[kschachn]

If you believe that explanation.

That's a very specific bit of information that ExxonMobil has to my knowledge never given out for this or any oil. Unprecedented transparency for them.

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: buster
I would almost guarantee it has everything to do with timing/reformulation. M1 0w40 is a very robust oil that is tough to beat. And Mobil is very good about not claiming specs they haven't officially been tested against.


Doesn't appear to be a timing issue.

From Mobil: "...At the same time, BMW had modified the testing requirement for the LL-01 spec – adding of a more severe N20 2liter turbo test that, apparently, we do not yet meet."

Taken from this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4068945

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: buster
I would almost guarantee it has everything to do with timing/reformulation. M1 0w40 is a very robust oil that is tough to beat. And Mobil is very good about not claiming specs they haven't officially been tested against.


Doesn't appear to be a timing issue.

From Mobil: "...At the same time, BMW had modified the testing requirement for the LL-01 spec – adding of a more severe N20 2liter turbo test that, apparently, we do not yet meet."

Taken from this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4068945


Question is why don't they meet it? Did they need to resubmit it due to a change when they reformulated? That's what I'd like to know.

Mobil 1 has always been ahead of the curve when it comes to turbos. That's why I personally don't buy that it can't meet it. I doubt that. I could be wrong though.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines

 

[edyvw]

This excuse how it is timing it is ridiculous. M1 is loosing huge amount of money because of this, so I would say M1 0W40 FS is still in the works and expect some changes in formulation.

 

[buster]

Clearly changes are being made, they don't even had a product data sheet available yet.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: buster
Clearly changes are being made, they don't even had a product data sheet available yet.

As far as I know they do.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: buster
Clearly changes are being made, they don't even had a product data sheet available yet.

As far as I know they do.

Where is it?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: buster
Clearly changes are being made, they don't even had a product data sheet available yet.

As far as I know they do.

Where is it?

Sorry, I was convinced they have it. They have all characteristics posted though, but not PDS and MSDS:
Mobil1 0W40 FS

 

[bobbydavro]

If they can pass regain BMW LL01 then the brand name can go back to Mobil 1 0W-40. No need for the FS

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
If you believe that explanation. [...]


Seriously?

 

[ryanm8]

My suspicion is that they were finished with the reformulation, and then BMW made the test harder, which the new formula couldn't pass. They probably didn't think it was worth the extra cost to reformulate it again to pass it, so just decided to drop the spec instead.

There's no doubt that Exxon CAN make an oil that can pass it, they just chose not to for some reason (likely cost related).

What I wonder is if Castrol 0w40 passes the new spec, or is just allowed to have it listed on the bottle still because it hasn't been reformulated/retested yet.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: kschachn
If you believe that explanation. [...]

Seriously?


Yes, seriously. Some person posts to an Internet board a piece of personal conversation with an ExxonMobil rep that is highly atypical of the usual type of response? It's one data point that is an outlier. I've never seen one response from them that divulged any sort of technical or procedural information that wasn't already available somewhere on their website or in marketing materials.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: ryanm8
My suspicion is that they were finished with the reformulation, and then BMW made the test harder, which the new formula couldn't pass. They probably didn't think it was worth the extra cost to reformulate it again to pass it, so just decided to drop the spec instead.

There's no doubt that Exxon CAN make an oil that can pass it, they just chose not to for some reason (likely cost related).

What I wonder is if Castrol 0w40 passes the new spec, or is just allowed to have it listed on the bottle still because it hasn't been reformulated/retested yet.

Highly doubt. Companies like Mobil1 have connections with large manufacturers, regardless whether they are their "official" oil or not. M1 should now in advance that BMW is going to include N20 in test. N20 is on the market for 4-5 years, and other engines from that generation (mostly in Europe).
Old version however, still carries LL-01 in Europe.

 

[Quattro Pete]

According to Afton Chemical, the N20 test was added in 2012, so it's not like this just happened yesterday. It should have given lube manufacturers like XOM plenty of time to adapt by now.

Unless there was some revision recently???