Molybdenum, is there a downside?

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I constantly read how this additive is the favorite of many bitog members. Is there any downside to this ingredient? Why don't all mfc use it?
 
Originally Posted By: 5170
I constantly read how this additive is the favorite of many bitog members. Is there any downside to this ingredient? Why don't all mfc use it?


YES!

1/ Good quality (Tri-nuke etc) Moly is expensive, so most oils in use in the USA do not contain any Moly(Mo), OR have so little that it has no real effect.

2/ Cheap forms (Not made and fully certified by a German chemical company) drop out of solution or suspension after a few years (Then it sure does not work unless stirred up).

3/ CORROSION, too much Moly can increase corrosion rates (Big issue with older diesels), hence some engines must not use an engine oil with Mo in it. Castrol GTX is a good one for such engines.

4/ A lot of engine oil mixers do NOT CHECK FOR CHEMICAL INTERFERENCE WITH OTHER ADDITIVES, or even new high tech base stocks. The big players like Mobil, Castrol, SHELL and Liqui Moly sure do.

CONCLUSION: Use a major brand full synthetic and stay away from the use of non TUV Sud (German certs) oil additives not sold by Liqui Moly (Owned by Fuchs a big refiner) or Castrol (Their classic car division do sell a few, but only in bulk).

PS: If you have bought a non TUV or API certified oil additive, READ THE PRODUCT DATA SHEET (Contents and instructions), then throw it in the correct rubbish bin, before rather than after use (Gingerbeer joke)!
 
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An additive with very small MoS2 particles in suspension (like Liqui Moly) will make your oil look darker, even when it is fresh. Some people don't like this effect...
 
The primary use for molybdenum compounds is for fuel economy benefits. This benefit works best when combined with ZDDP and adding more Molybdenum compounds doesn't necessarily increase the benefit or extend the benefit through longer oil changes.

Most formulators have chosen to balance zdp and molybdenum compounds to give you the performance required by the specifications list in the owners manual.
 
Originally Posted By: Solarent
The primary use for molybdenum compounds is for fuel economy benefits. This benefit works best when combined with ZDDP and adding more Molybdenum compounds doesn't necessarily increase the benefit or extend the benefit through longer oil changes.

Most formulators have chosen to balance zdp and molybdenum compounds to give you the performance required by the specifications list in the owners manual.


thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
A lot of engine oil mixers do NOT CHECK FOR CHEMICAL INTERFERENCE WITH OTHER ADDITIVES, or even new high tech base stocks. The big players like Mobil, Castrol, SHELL and Liqui Moly sure do.


Are you claiming that 'small player'/boutique blenders (like Red Line) which have high 'dimer'/di-nuke type moly levels are also guilty of the above omission/oversight??
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Or was this ONLY directed at car owners dumping untold amounts of (non-LM) moly additives into their sumps?
 
I love the part throttle increased responsiveness effect of LM MSO2 in older engines, say 100K & up--more than the butt-dyno IMO. Newer engines may make a difference, but not felt by the dyno
Steve
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
A lot of engine oil mixers do NOT CHECK FOR CHEMICAL INTERFERENCE WITH OTHER ADDITIVES, or even new high tech base stocks. The big players like Mobil, Castrol, SHELL and Liqui Moly sure do.


Are you claiming that 'small player'/boutique blenders (like Red Line) which have high 'dimer'/di-nuke type moly levels are also guilty of the above omission/oversight??
21.gif


Or was this ONLY directed at car owners dumping untold amounts of (non-LM) moly additives into their sumps?


No, when the folks here talk about additives, they are talking about ones not included in an engine oil by the oil mixer or oil company. Oil mixers like Redline do test their products to some extent, BUT most of the so called Snake Oil Mixers do not.

I do use Ceratec with Shell Ultra and LM Synthoil High Tech, but I'm sure LM test their additives with common major brand oils.

Most Redline oils seem to be aimed at Race engines or thin oil applications, so they have a lot of Moly and less detergents. So they are not designed for long OCI's.
 
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In my new Honda Civic I use Lubegard Biotech. Arco used LM Mos2 in a quite new Honda and it gave him trouble. Mos2 works well in older cars but newer cars I would use Lubegard Biotech or Redline oil as an additive for a kick in molybdenum.
 
Originally Posted By: Marco620
In my new Honda Civic I use Lubegard Biotech. Arco used LM Mos2 in a quite new Honda and it gave him trouble. Mos2 works well in older cars but newer cars I would use Lubegard Biotech or Redline oil as an additive for a kick in molybdenum.


Yeah, considering his track record of ruining nearly every vehicle he touches (or at least claims he did), I wouldn't worry about that.
 
Royal Purple support emailed me back and they don't use it cause it stays in suspension.. Maybe they don't think it is a decent wear anti- additive or causes other issues as you guys have stated?

i didn't ask them details.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
Royal Purple support emailed me back and they don't use it cause it stays in suspension.. Maybe they don't think it is a decent wear anti- additive or causes other issues as you guys have stated?

i didn't ask them details.


What did they say exactly - could you quote their text? Something doesn't add up here.
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK


3/ CORROSION, too much Moly can increase corrosion rates (Big issue with older diesels), hence some engines must not use an engine oil with Mo in it. Castrol GTX is a good one for such engines.


Under what circumstances might this happen? Is the Mo in 4 litres of Redline & 1 can of LM mos2 of sufficient concentration to cause harm?
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK


3/ CORROSION, too much Moly can increase corrosion rates (Big issue with older diesels), hence some engines must not use an engine oil with Mo in it. Castrol GTX is a good one for such engines.


Under what circumstances might this happen? Is the Mo in 4 litres of Redline & 1 can of LM mos2 of sufficient concentration to cause harm?


I don't think so, as it was Cummins that warned against the use of oils with Moly in them, as it resulted in actual corrosion related failures:
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/436983-post11.html

That issue was caused by the use of cheap forms of Moly, not the real German made McCoy Moly!
 
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VOA link for Redline 5w30:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2141562

Lots of Moly, Zinc and plenty of detergents, BUT the flaspoint is low which is rather odd.
It might be a good race oil, but it will probably need topping up more often. Not good news for a long OCI.
Some OEM 0w20 oils also have similar amounts of Moly, although they tend to have less detergent and Zinc add's.
Redline is the only oil I have looked at that contains Silicon additives, unless it was made in a dusty desert area!
 
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^^^Yes, and it's TBN (at least according to that VOA) is fairly high due to those detergent pack additives, and it's claimed HTHSV is VERY high, also it's claimed NOACK is fairly low.
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Maybe it would NOT 'burn off' as quickly as you think it would, despite it's somewhat low(ish) FP??
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^^Yes, and it's TBN (at least according to that VOA) is fairly high due to those detergent pack additives, and it's claimed HTHSV is VERY high, also it's claimed NOACK is fairly low.
confused.gif


Maybe it would NOT 'burn off' as quickly as you think it would, despite it's somewhat low(ish) FP??
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Yes you might be correct as I didn't check the figures. Does anyone know why this oil has such a low FP, or which exact Silicon compound is used as an additive. Both of those features of this Redline oil are very rare, as I've never seen either in a VOA before and they both have the potential for causing some confusion over interpreting UOA results.
 
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